I have a good mate who is married to a non-Thai woman. Although separated by several continents she has many of the same values as a Thai woman. They were having dinner one night with a farang couple. My mate’s wife offhandedly mentioned that sometimes when her husband gets home from work she’ll pour a basin of water and wash his feet.
The farang woman was aghast. She, in her self-righteous zeal, berated the wife for being subservient. She told her she should more pride in herself and not allow herself to be treated like a slave.
The wife, biting her tongue as best she could, told the farang woman that she doesn’t do it because he expects her to. For her it is a way of showing appreciation. Her husband provides for her very well and they own several beautiful homes. She wants for nothing. She went on to tell the farang that her husband is a loving and caring man who attends to her emotionally as well as financially and that she loves him very much. She asked why it should seem so strange to do something for her husband that he finds relaxing and enjoying.
Like I said, she was biting her tongue as best she could but her feelings were eventually betrayed in her last sentence on the topic. "Perhaps if you Western women showed your husbands some respect and appreciation for being a good husband the divorce rate in your country wouldn’t be over 50%."
This interaction is a perfect illustration of why so many farang men fall in love with Thai women. It also serves to illustrate why so many farang women simply cannot grasp why farang men seem to prefer Thai women. The farang women think they know but they are as wrong as first timer to Thailand who can’t see past the Thai smile.
Farang women, generally, think that farang men are attracted to Thai women is because they are submissive. They think the men are attracted because they can get a girlfriend half their age. They think that the men are attracted to the tight little Asian bodies.
The farang woman is correct but only to a certain degree. Yes, men are attracted to those things but there’s more to it than just that. Farang men also want to feel appreciated and respected. Yet, as the story told above demonstrates your average farang woman would never lower themselves. Farang women cherish their equality too much to do something that seems to them to be so one-sided.
However there’s an inequality in most farang / farang relationships. By that I mean that when you weigh all of the tangible and intangible qualities each party brings to the relationship the man, generally, is bringing more to the table than the woman. For instance, in few farang / farang marriages does the husband earn less than the wife. Likewise, you’re far more likely to find an attractive man married to an average looking woman than to find an attractive woman married to an average looking man. There are no absolutes here but just going by the numbers this is more true than not.
So you have these inequalities in most relationships. I know that’s a hard pill for some people to swallow but one only need to look at the number of men who graduate with degrees in economics, mathematics, computer science, medicine, and the other hard sciences vs. the number of women. Men, just going by the numbers, are more likely to be the higher earner. So right from the starting blocks you have an income discrepancy between the two. In order for the relationship to equalize she needs to bring something of the same value to the relationship.
Unfortunately, Western women cherish the concept of equality too much. Tell a secretary making £30,000 a year that she needs to bring something extra to the table in order to marry a software engineer making £60,000 and, rightly or wrongly, she’ll accuse you of being a chauvinist. So men just tend to accept that as part of life. Tradition says that their job is to be the primary earner so they accept it unquestioningly.
But there’s a catch. Even though, traditionally, that means that the woman should shoulder more of the household chores and generally try to provide a good home life for her husband who has been fulfilling his traditional role, many farang women feel that that role is outdated and beneath them. Whether that is true or not is not for me to answer but in one way or the other the woman has to bring things back to balance or the relationship simply isn’t going to work. Perhaps she’s much more attractive than her husband. That might even things out. Maybe she’s a wildcat in the sack. That might balance things out. Maybe she knows just when and just how to stroke her husband’s ego. Maybe that’s what evens things out. I don’t know what it is as it will be different for different couples but without the balance the relationship is doomed.
I believe this is why you often see so much hostility directed at farang women by farang men who have been fortunate enough to have a relationship with a Thai woman. Even if they don’t fully realize it consciously, it dawns on them that they’ve been getting the short end of the stick in most relationships. And like finding out your girlfriend has been sleeping around on you behind your back the farang man feels humiliated for being taken for such a fool. His rage is often so out of proportion with the actual damage done that he dismisses all farang women as . . . . well, I could list several derogatory terms here but I’ll allow the reader to fill in his/her own.
Personally, I don’t hate farang women. I don’t date them very often nowadays but I don’t hate them. I do prefer to date Thai women. Not for the reasons that most farang women might think but because Thai women tend to try to balance out the relationship. Obviously you cannot talk about an entire sex and not have exceptions. There are Thai women who’s mind set is more like the farang women I’ve described and there are farang women who have an outlook more like the Thai women I describe. That’s why I try to steer clear of making sweeping statements and say things like "tend to" or "normally."
It’s funny because most farang men have brainwashed themselves into believing many of the same things as farang women. I guess it’s natural since we come from the same culture. I remember the first time it really struck me. She was Thai with a good job, had a post-graduate degree, and was certainly not the poor farmer’s daughter stereotype. We were having dinner and when the food arrived she served me and then herself. When my water glass was half empty (or half full depending on how you look at it) she would fill it.
I was a little uncomfortable with that so I indicated she didn’t need to serve me. She insisted gently saying "You relax. I take care of you." As I thought about it, it made sense. If she likes you then demonstrating that she can be a good girlfriend or wife is very important to her. It would be the same as a guy holding a door open or pulling the seat out for his date. This is her way of saying that she likes me and that this is one of the qualities she intends to bring to the relationship.
Perhaps farang women will think she was being subservient but I thought of it as part of the dance we call dating. I show my ability to provide by taking her to a nice place to eat and she reciprocates by demonstrating that she can be a caring girlfriend. If anything, instead of viewing it as an act of weakness, as being subservient would imply, I viewed it as a sign that she was not the type of woman who would only take from the relationship without giving back. Obviously, a respectable quality.
Now if one contrasts that with a normal farang / farang date you start to recognize how the whole relationship imbalance manifests itself. It’s very difficult for a woman to screw up on a date unless she doesn’t show up, passes out drunk, or belches at the table. It’s hard for her to screw up the date because she is not the one auditioning. The man is primarily the one who is auditioning. So on a normal farang / farang date the man is expected to demonstrate all of the qualities that he can bring into the relationship and the woman will either approve (agree to a second date) or disapprove (decline a second date) without ever revealing her hand.
On a farang / Thai date both the man and woman are auditioning equally. This is true equality and I find it refreshingly honest which is why I prefer to date Thai women. When I date a Thai woman I feel as if I actually have some control over the situation. It is as much up to her to impress me as it is for me to impress her. I don’t want to say it makes you feel as if you have more power than you do in a farang / farang relationship but it’s the difference between a job interview where the company has specifically recruited you because of your unique talents and a job interview after you’ve been laid off during a recession. In one you feel like you’re in a position of control. If the company wants you then they need to demonstrate that they can provide you with the working environment and compensation that you feel entitled to. In the other scenario you’re just happy to have gotten the interview. You know what you think you’re worth but the phone isn’t exactly ringing off the hook so you’ll probably take whatever they offer even if it’s not what you think is fair.
One needs to look no farther than romantic imagery in the media to see how imbalanced the relationship process is in farang / farang relationships. How does a man show he loves a woman? He buys her roses, chocolates, diamonds, gold, and other gifts. If he’s truly the romantic type he does something huge like fly her off to Paris for an amorous holiday. How does a woman show she loves her husband? Well if we are to believe the media representation of farang / farang relationships then a peck on the cheek might be ample reward for those chocolates. Giving him sex might be the payoff for a diamond ring or a Paris holiday.
The idea of a man constantly showing his wife with gifts and affection is seen as romantic. The idea of a woman who showers her husband with signs of affection is seen as weak and of low self-esteem. In fact, if we’re to believe the media then the best gift a wife can give her husband is to leave him alone. How is the husband rewarded for mowing the lawn and taking care of the manly household chores? He’s allowed to watch football on television. What is the husband’s reward for taking his wife out to go see a "chick flick" which bored him to tears? He gets to go hang out with his mates for a boys night out.
Better yet, can you imagine seeing on television a show where after taking his wife out for a very expensive and romantic dinner his wife offered to give him a foot massage? Not the rub your big toe and then try to have sex type of massage but a proper hour long foot massage? Yet it would seem normal if a woman comes home from an exhausting day at the office, kicks off her shoes, and her husband massages her feet as she explains everything she’s been through that day. We call that kind of man romantic. In fact, that is the message that Western media promotes. Men being subservient to women is romantic and women being subservient to men is chauvinistic.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to say that love with a farang woman can’t be found or that you can’t find a farang woman who won’t jump through hoops to make the relationship as equal as possible but it’s much rarer in the Western world than in Thailand. From a social point of view this change in how equality has only occurred over the last 50 or 60 years. Back then you had housewives who took pride in performing their traditional roles. Interestingly, according to the University of Maryland, between 1950 and 2000 the number of divorces per 1000 women married more than doubled. Also of note is that the highest rate of divorce was during the 1970′s when women’s activism was at it’s peak. That’s obviously not enough data to make any sort of direct correlation but this blog post isn’t a PhD thesis so allow me some latitude.
And just as I’m not saying that finding love with a farang woman is impossible, I’m also not saying that Thai women are a piece of cake either. In addition to things like language and cultural issues you also have people who just don’t possess the qualities you look for in a partner and/or possess personality defects. I’ve dated more than a few girls who I hope to never see again even as a friend.
The bottom line is that I don’t agree with the people who think all farang women are fat, whining, bitches nor do I agree with the people who say that any man who dates a Thai woman is doing so for the sex, subservient attitude, or because he’s too much of a loser to find women back in the West. There are some very valid reasons why guys like to date Thai women and there are some very valid reasons why they don’t want to date Western women. It’s all about what we hope to find in a relationship. For instance, I have a mate I’ve known for well over 20 years. I’ve seen him go through countless relationships. The only long-term relationships he seems to have are with women who are controlling and dominating. He likes to be a bad boy. When he’s with submissive women he runs right over them. When he runs into a woman who wants to control him and tame him that is when he is the most happy. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for me at all. I could never date the type of women he dates and he would never have a meaningful relationship with a Thai girl. We’re just wired differently.
That holds true for all men. There are some of us who aren’t satisfied with the type of women we meet in the West. That doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with those women. They just need to find someone who’s looking for that personality type. For us unsatisfied men, there are aspects of Thai culture that produce women who we’re more compatible with. Different strokes for different folks.
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…erm. I didnt think i said anything about Thai men’s penis size!
Sorry, you were replying to Lobo. I thought you’d just got the spelling wrong! LOL
I agree with your statement by the way. I had a 6’4” farang boyfriend. He had a very small one. You can never tell!
Ruai
I agree with you in that is doesn’t seem that western guys are really the primary choice for the majority of Thai gals. The exceptions I have noted have been in those who studied abroad (europe/usa/australia) and are more open minded or in certain professions where there is a world of things in common and essentially “universal acceptance” of international colleagues, and even under these circumstances, a romantic attraction would still entail mutual attraction (physical, emotional, etc) ie; the slim attractive Thai dermatologist doesn’t want to date the fat GP from Iowa.
I am just an observer……………
@dv, Well I agree and disagree. A slim, attractive Thai dermatologist might want to date the fat GP from Iowa. While looks are important I think Thai women tend to be a bit more pragmatic. If Iowa boy is a nice guy, dresses well, is good mannered and such he has a far, far, far greater chance of getting a date than he would back home (unless there’s something about Iowa I don’t know about ::grin::).
Bottom line is that I’ve got a few decades on me. I’m not exactly what anyone would call slim and though I’ve never had anyone repulsed at my physical appearance I’m not exactly Brad Pitt. I have no problem dating attractive, slim, educated Thai women here. Much like Iowa boy, if you have a good personality it goes a looooong way with Thai women.
On the other hand, I don’t guy trolling Chula for – as some refer to it – fresh meat. My personal opinion is that Thai women don’t hit emotional maturity until about 25 or 26. I have no interest in women younger than that. Bedding a nice 21 year old sounds great in theory but IMHO it’s more trouble than it’s worth.
Ruai;
A slim, attractive Thai dermatologist; also implied “having money” and that gal would have multiple upscale males interested and unless all of them were “fat boys” I would tend to think she’d choose the more fit ones, just as males such as yourself, apparently choose attractive, slim, educated.
@dv: I’ll agree that given her relatively high position in Thai society it does make it more difficult. First is where are you even going to meet a girl like that? Probably not at a club up on Ekamai on a Saturday night.
Unless you happen to run work together or hang out with a similar status circle of Thai friends any meeting would have to be almost completely by chance.
But I disagree with your overall analysis. Studies have show time and time again that women tend to look at the total package and not just physical appearance. So to assume she’s going to make a decision based solely on fat or fit seems a little too generalized for me and doesn’t really parallel my own experiences if you’ve got a good personality, self-confidence, and can make people laugh (with you, not at you
The other part is that one has to question why she’s single in the first place. With all of these other fit, upscale, high quality males around her vying for her attentions why hasn’t she selected one? One has to assume she has other selection criteria. And if she’s made it through four years of university, four years of med school, and a five year internship program and she still hasn’t found Mr. Right then maybe she is willing to date the Iowa boy with a bit of a beer belly. Maybe he’s got all of the other criteria she’s looking for in a man.
Love is funny like that.
Lastly, the entire premise is seems so contrived. There are maybe 40,000 doctors in Thailand. I’m going to take a guess and say that nowhere near half of them are female so we’re talking about a sample size of about 15,000 people in a country of 65 million? Take out the married women and what’s the chance we’re talking about more than 1000 women?
I can see the overall point you’re trying to make. I don’t think that some 80 year old sex tourist with a massive beer gut is going to land a twenty-something Thai movie actress but that doesn’t mean that a decent guy who may not be the ultimate physical specimen can’t date a nice attractive Thai girl with an education.
Ruai San,
you are very wise indeed. as the reason i am in thailand has nothing to do with my social life, perhaps some of this participation is like an additional hobby/substitute.
personally i have no interest in finding anyone that will entail providing a better financial future. (been there, done that)
there are lots of reasons a person can be single and not necessarily related to character defects or negative attributes.
the thai curriculum is 6 years after high school, then 3 more for derm. i am not sure if derm here requires 1 year internship, it very well may not. (lets just say i was an exchange student)
@dv: Wise? No, just made a lot of mistakes before
If I was truly wise I would have never made them in the first place.
In terms of the dermo, I just googled requirements for a dermatologist. It would seem that in the west to use that title you need to get a medical doctorate first and then go into the specialty of dermatology. Based on what you’re saying the standards might be a little looser in the LOS.
I don’t think I said anything about being single meaning someone has character defects. I’ve never been married so to imply that were the case I would be making a rather telling statement about myself as well
And I agree about being a better future for someone. I don’t want to be a way out for someone.
Now, in Thailand that’s not exactly an easy trick. And you’re correct in saying that the competition is much higher than it is for some farmer’s daughter who’s waiting tables at your favorite restaurant on lower Suk.
But I think the point where we differ is that you have what I read/view as a defeatist attitude towards it though you might think it only being realistic. It’s more difficult but not impossible. That’s why I often agree with what you’re saying but not necessarily the tone behind what you’re saying.
Ruai ” you the man”
6 years after HS IS medical college and gets a degree. This is the similar system used in many other countries, including the US(after HS) 6 year programs(combined BS/MD)
Again, I am only an observer and as incredible as it may seem, my stay in Thailand has nothing to do with my social life, so perhaps I see things with a different light.
@dv: That’s why I said the standards are relaxed. A combined BS/PhD totaling 6 years is not the same as 4 years undergrad and 4 years med school which is common in western countries. And, at least in the US (according to Google), to get a specialty in dermatology there’s a 5 year internship after you’ve completed your doctorate.
I’m not so sure you and I aren’t alike. Sure I came here for the nightlife but after I gorged on that for awhile I much prefer anything but nightlife. I love meeting Thai people from all layers of Thai society and the reason I said you sound a little defeatist is that I’ve had moderate success dating nice Thai women so I know it’s not as difficult as you often make it seem. You just need to put in the time and effort into finding out where quality women can be found and then you need the most difficult thing in the world which is to go up to them and start talking to them
A lot of guys fall into the trap of believing the hype that they are a “hansum man” but I know how old I am and how fat I am (not reallllllly fat but not exactly sporting a six-pack). Sure some girls have no interest but many do. Nice girls. Educated women (MBA’s, lawyers, etc).
I actually do have a good personality and am usually successful with farang women back home if I they’ll give me a chance and talk with me for a bit. The only difference in Thailand is that women are too polite to completely blow you off so you actually get that chance to be witty and charming
Western woman cannot compete with Thai girls in any rate, end of story.
Ah Dave, you are one of “those” men. o.O
The type that find it hard to believe there are many men who do not find the concept of being with a Thai woman appealing, nor find them attractive. (Or worse, the type who got stung “back home” and feels the need to put down all women in the west as some kind of odd personal compensation – usually in the company of other men who feel the same..so they perpetuate the hate).
Personally i think many Thai women are beautiful (and many not so beautiful..personality-wise and/or looks-wise), however, my brother and many other male friends, some not in Thailand, but some who are, do not find them beautiful, nor good partners due to many reasons (cultural, emotional, in some cases the ability to communicate/share ideas etc). Its all a matter of what you like. Usually, men who like a certain ‘type’ will try to be around them..or move/visit that country. Chances then, of course, is that they will meet other men who prefer the same ‘type’, so they all agree with each other, and sillily come to the conclusion that all men must feel the same way. My brother likes the Latina look, so he is in heaven in Argentina (although committed to one Argentinian lady for the last 10 years). Maybe if he was more into the Asian/Thai girl and out of the need to have a look for himself he would be over here in a flash to visit me (which i would be great, as i miss him). But, alas, he likes curvy feisty women, the typical Thai girl is just not his thing. I had one man who told me he doesnt like the nose and eye shapes of Asian women, another about their often lack of ‘womanly’ shape. ..and i cannot count the number of men who have bemoaned the quietness and lack of communication and the “up to you” answer. But, of course, the other side, is men who adore the girliness, the cuteness, etc etc (of course, this is only a MAJOR generalisation..women, even from different ethnic backgrounds and cultures, come in all shapes and sizes with individual personalities).
I often find that many western men who come here and get starry-eyed about the first Thai girl who showed them interest, end up bitter because they made a poor choice (often because they allowed themselves to be taken in by the first pretty girl..who ended up being more interested in the wallet than the man). Thai women, like all women, can and do make great partners, but, like everywhere, you should choose wisely, unless you dont mind being taken for a ride and your money doesnt dry up.
Dave, if you are happy with a Thai girl, im really glad for you. Just be aware that most people (outside the group of men who regularly make those kinds of statements) view men who make those kinds of sweeping statements as someone who probably has some problems/issues. How about viewing the bigger picture and realising that the “West” and its women covers a lot of territory? Sweeping statements just make you sound seriously jaded. But hey..”up to you!” ^.^
cm;
nice well balanced non biased post above. personally i do not see anything magical among the thai female populous. Seeming more feminine is part of the male dominated culture and non male-female parity culture.
I believe without the huge sex industry, thailand would not be very important to the multitude of western males. That industry is what often brings them in the first place. There does seem to be a larger acceptable age difference among couples, than the west, short of being Michael Douglas or a rock star.
After all is said and done, “up to you”
I am just an observer
ruai san
i know your intent is positive. some corrections.
http://www.abderm.org/residency.html
thus derm in USA is 3 years. the year prior is just general experience before the specialty.
Again, there is no real advantage in completing a 4 year bachelor degree before entering an MD program. Europe, and many other including G8 countries start a program leading to medical doctor right after high school. There are in fact such programs in the US also.
Do not confuse Phd with a doctor of medicine degree. they are not the same. Some countries confer an MBBS which is the equivalent to an MD.
Personal experience tells us the Thai standards are quite good as many a Thai grad does very very well on competitiv tough international exams, especially Chula and Mahidol. Some Thai grads sore higher then US grads on the same exams.
ruai san
i know your intent is positive. some corrections.
http://www.abderm.org/residency.html
thus derm in USA is 3 years. the year prior is just general experience before the specialty.
Again, there is no real advantage in completing a 4 year bachelor degree before entering an MD program. Europe, and many other including G8 countries start a program leading to medical doctor right after high school. There are in fact such programs in the US also.
Do not confuse Phd with a doctor of medicine degree. they are not the same. Some countries confer an MBBS which is the equivalent to an MD.
Personal experience tells us the Thai standards are quite good as many a Thai grad does very very well on competitiv tough international exams, especially Chula and Mahidol. Some Thai grads score higher then US grads on the same exams.
Like I said dv, I simply did a Google for the requirements for a doctorate in derm.
I have no doubt that the quality of medical training is quite high in Thailand. If I were to have a major procedure done I would feel quite comfortable having it done here. In fact, I would prefer to have it done here.
My reference to training was only in relation to what I had Googled as the difference between the two systems. I think many of the Thai doctors get most of their education in the west anyway so it was by no means an slap at the quality of care.
sorry about unintentional double post
A true story;
I had seen a US graduate board certified dermatologist in USA. He gave me acne medication cream for some bumps on my face. bumps did not get better.
went to Bangkok non US trainedThai dermatologist that told me immediately they were not acne but sebaceous cysts. She treated them and now completely gone.
I subsequently looked at an atlas of photos of the 2 and appreciated the notable clear differences, and I am not a dermatologist.
Hi guys, it is rather late here in South Africa at present, and will give more input soon, however having read what I have, between Trudie and Billy, I can sincerely say that a Western “farang” man would love a Thai woman, and rather hate a Western “farang” woman, for the simple reason in Thailand the ONE EYED man is KING in the land of the blind!!! ……..In the Western world farang woman aint blind……we do all we can too and more for our men, other than allow them to control and manipulate us. We dont bow down to the Dollar, nor the pound WE make our own, and Western farang men feel threatened by that, whereas with Thai woman they feel like the KING…….until they declare or if they declare they bankrupt they come down with a rude awakening with Thai woman and are dropped like a hot potatoe. Western farang woman stand by their men, through sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer…….we dont live in a fantasy world.
I have been there, dont that got the T……..scrubbed floors, cooked, ironed, wiped children’s bottoms, done the washing by hand, and machine, had good making love sessions, worked and earned a living and supported my ex husband for 25 yrs and he was still asking me “Do you love me”?
Hell………so what’s up with these Western “farang” men with Thai woman, or is it that they can be the controlling partner really?
QUOTE – MEGA 04.07.09 at 4:00 pm
Some interesting observations from people who are clearly convinced of the complete certainty of their arguments.
Having been in a number of relationships – with women from all parts of the world – I say with absolute conviction to all men that, unless you are wanting to have children, there is clearly no sane reason for marrying or entering into a relationship.
UNQUOTE——
I would like to answer MEGA on this one.
I understand that you in your fifties and single, sometimes I wonder why at your age you still have not found your ultimate soul mate? Some men, not all are selfish and self centered and are not prepared to share themselves with their ONE TRUE love. When one does happen to truly fall in love all of that disappears, and there are men who are more than willing to give up their selfish needs and desires to be with the lady of their life.
Sometimes I think people in general dont really know the true meaning of LOVE.
Know let’s take an example of this shall we?
Woman too are free spirited and love to do their own thing, not just shopping or have money in mind although she loves the security a well balanced home brings, she too would like to catch up with her mates for a drinking spree and a party and a paintingof the town red, she too would like to just leave her clothes lying around and not worry about hygiene, but all in all if that would happen and we all lived like pigs can you imagine all the air borne sicknesses in a home?
I have a 25 year old daughter who I call my “wild black horse” cant keep her down, she is full of fire and couldnt care less what she has, all she is interesed in is having a ball with her friends, just like the guys do, she is not interested in marriage and says it comes with all kinds of conditions and ties her down even a relationship does that to her, she often quotes me on what my mother used to say “love them all, marry none” lol!
So you see woman have the same notion at times, play around before you settle down. But let me tell you, when that LOVE BUG bites it bites hard. Then the song comes to mind that Bryan Adams sang, “ANYTHING I DO, I DO IT FOR YOU”
Have we forgotten OLD FASHION LOVE? Where when we fall in love and it is true and genuine then both parties do all they can to make each other happy, and if there are any material benefits in the relationship that is a bonus? Or are we so focused on what wealth either party brings to the relationship? Wonder how Buddah or Jesus would sum this up.
Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all these things shall be added unto you comes to mind….I read a book that I got from a Buddist temple and from what I can make out Buddah was not that much into material things but freeing the mind of such desires….or did I get that wrong……..
Remember another song? WHERE IS THE LOVE?
And then what about AIDS? Perhaps we should think twice before we leap.
Find LOVE first and ALL these things shall be added unto you.
The most precious thing in this world to come to a man is the heart of a woman!
Why do men always think that woman have ulterior motives other than to find her SOUL MATE and cherish and love him? I guess all relationships have their ups and downs and within the first 7 yrs of a relationship it is to get to know you……..be it Western Farang woman or Thai or the world, and when the novelty wears off, are men ready to venture to greener pastures looking for a new thrill which would inevitable end up the same old thing……….KEEP THE excitment going and dont let either of you become boring…….we are after all creatures of habit.
And true love NEVER ran smooth.
Pip
Apologies for the spelling of Buddha, and not meaning to offend anyone, however we need to find a balance in our lives including what all RELIGIONS say about love.
My little religious book has this to say:
1 Corinthians 13
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Can anyone tell me what does Buddha have to say on TRUE LOVE?
Have we become so out of touch with the true meaning of it?
The most precious possession that ever comes to a man in this world is a woman’s heart.
~ by Josiah G. Holland ~
A WOMAN is like a car. What you put into her, you get out of her……that’s why all cars are called “she”
He will do anything to win her, but nothing to keep her? O-O
Hi Pippens,
I love your postings here! Thanks for sharing the good words. We have the same book. And the latest is so fantastic. I believe as well that men lead the relationship. The couple, both of them have to exert efforts; however, it’s the man’s role to guide and lead to where the relationship is going. For the same reason why my book says as well for MAN LOVE YOUR WIFE and WIFE OBEY YOUR HUSBAND.
Guess this is true to all, not just on married couples and so certain nationalities, if two people beleive in the same way than there will be more harmonious relationships in all parts of the world.
Hi Eanah,
Thanks for the reply, however I must clarify one thing, when it was said Wives “obey” your husbands men must not take it out of context that she must be his slave, it was meant that if the husband at the end of the day came up with a better solution to any problems then it would be good to go with his decision, and it is all to do with a man’s integrity and respect. Jesus said in my book that men should love their wives as he loved the church……..that’s how much woman are meant to be respected and not OBEY as in SLAVE OBEY but in respecting obey.
Pip
To add to this, I dont think anyone really “leads” the relationship, I think it is a joint effort as it is said when a man and woman get married they beocme ONE.
So they should treat each other as they would treat themselves.
There’s a saying: Treat those the way you wish to be treated.
AMEN.
Oh and I would love to add another 2 cents chirp if I may?
A question to the guys….this time…
Why is it that men seek virgins and expect their “first love” to be pure, or else she is dirty etc.
But men are they virgins when they marry for the first time?
A man can sleep around and have a ball and so call test the waters and he is having fun, however if a woman does the same?
Come on guys be fair……..we expect the same from you.
Just wait until you find one and marry her. Then she’ll come to the West and learn all the horrible “empowering” characteristics of Western women. Her eyes are opened up to a whole new world of entitled independence. Now you have the worst of both worlds. This is my life.
@justamoron
anyway, I’m not sure. guess people, good and bad have their own versions in different parts of the world……some may be slightly different because of VALUES enculturation and personal beliefs. If one person believes it isn’t right to do a thing then regardles of the environment I don’t think that belief or principle could change…….. life is an echo too, one reflects to the other as no one can spit to a smiling face…..
Well, you’ve hit the nail on the head. Basically the idea of “women’s liberation” just broke the entire western mindset. Now in the States if you look at any women 10 years younger than you, they clutch their purse and appear as if they are about to be raped! The entitlement/expectations are so huge on that end, that there is no balance. Given that women tend to operate on a consensual reality (what she and her girlfriends agree on is the reality, truth has nothing to do with it), then you’ve got real problems. I don’t date women from the U.S. There’ s just too much screwed up belief structure to be dealt with. Of course the fact that most of them look miserable in their lives, slamming chocolate and romance novels, means that very little self observation has occurred. After all, their beliefs are the ‘consensus’ right?
Nor would I pull one out of the environment that helped create her. Coming to “gold mountain” is one of the biggest mistakes that can be made if the women is not educated and aware, as justamoron declaims.
None of these “equality” beliefs empower men or women. It’s at the expense of both. What people need to do is get a sense of the essential nature of their potential partner, and operate from that mindset, not one based upon material expectations or sociological belief structures that some nazi-fem-lib type dreamed up for a dissertation!
i dont agreet with most of what written here, because you have forgotten to describe how farangs men whoi prefer thai women look like, just fat or skinny, ugly to death old and sick of sex and same time most of them impotent…they have thai women because no farang woman could even think to spend a second with such men.
Thai women mostly dont have medical insurance and dont get pension, they work for little money and in their families almas nobody work, therefore they are daily looking for money and farangs is like a Fata morgana in the desert, no matter how he looks like.
They always mention their need and need of their family, but if farang mention problems in his family, thai women does not even care to listen. If farang is not so rich and too young to be retired and get pension, then thai woman does not have so much interest, she would never marry a poor farang.
Most of them have experienced with their thai men, love thai men first, but thai men leave wife very soon for other younger girls and leave them with childreen, then they hope to find a farang to repair to thei economic situation. Do you know how many stupid farangs have lost houses money and more…thanks to the thai culture commedy? Aso western women can be cause of problems to men, but not in a so huge percentage…
antonio Favia
@antonio: Thanks for stopping by and providing an excellent example of the burned farang who spends his waning days going around message boards and blogs and trash talking everything Thailand.
Mission Accomplished!
ho partecipato a moltissime feste tailandesi organizzate dal governo, almeno una trentina e chi partecipa sono dottori, insegnanti poliziotti ad altri impiegati governativi e vi garantisco che ero sempre il solo Farang nel paese, nonostante che vivevano altri farangs sposati con donne del posto. Ero imbarazzato, poiche” ero l’unico farang e non capivo come mai non venivani invitate anche donne sposate con farangs e relativi mariti. Mi fu’ detto che loro non vogliono assolutamente certe persone, sposate con prostitute.
Questo a dimostrare e confermare che bisogna togliersi dalla mente che le donne tailandesi ci amano veramente, anzi il farang e’ fortemente discriminato dalla societa’ normale ed e’ apprezzato solamente nel ambiente dei bar e della prostituzione.
Se una donna poi si comporta bene in casa (casa pagata dal marito farang) significa che il marito provvede a mantenere la moglie, la famiglia ed anche figli non sui, ma in casa, piu’ che apparire come moglie, sembra una badante o un pezzo della mobilia…..
credere nel vero amore in thailandia e. come credere che i gatti ci amano, non per la casa ed il cibo che offriamo.
Poi, la cultura che loro pretendono dal marito farangs, che non deve bere e non deve andare con le altre donne e che deve mantenere la famiglia, cioe’ ricattono il marito facendo credere che si tratta di cultura. ma mai e poi mai i loro mariti rispettano tale cultura, essi bevono e si unriacano, non mantengono la moglie ed i figli economocamente. picchiano regolarmente le loro donne e vanno in cerca di ragazza giovani e la moglie deve stare zitta. mentre con il farang avviene il contrario, data la sua ingenuita’.
in thailandia si sta bene, si mangia e beve con pochi soldi, non c’e’ molta criminalita’ e la gente nelle strade e’ sempre buona e sorridente…
…ma quando ci si compromette con una donna thai, lei avra’ sempre il sopravento sulla vita e sui soldi del farang…
ma poi volete divertirvi? andate a Pattaya ed altri paesi e vedrete che belle ragazzine con dei mostri che nemmeno la fantasia di Frankenstein riuscirebbe a costruire…pensate che quelle ragazzine siano veramente innamorate dei mostri? la donna thailandese e’ un esempio fantastico di come si puo’ illudere un farang e per i soldi loro sono piu’ che fantastiche..
antonio
sorry, last my message i have written in italian language because i forgot that this is e blog in english. to make me apologize, i write a funny thai joke… ” an 80 yers old farang has found an 18 years old thai girl…his frends ask him how at his age he could find a so young girl…he told them that was very easy, because when she asked him how old he is, he told her that he is 90 years old…”
antonio
I did a Google Translate on Antonio’s comment:
I participated in many festivals organized by the Thai government, at least thirty, and those who participate are doctors, teachers, policemen and other government employees, and I guarantee that I was always the only Farang in the country, despite living other farangs married local women. I was embarrassed, because “I was the only farang and did not understand why not, were coming also invited women married to farangs and their husbands. I was’ told that they absolutely do not want certain people, married with prostitutes.
This demonstrates and confirms that we need to break from the Thai women really love us, even the farang and ‘strongly discriminated by the society’ normal and ‘appreciated only in the environment of bars and prostitution.
If a woman then performs well at home (home paid for by the farang husband) means that the husband undertakes to support his wife, family and even children are not on, but at home, more ‘that appear as the wife seems to be a caregiver or a piece of furniture … ..
believe in true love in Thailand e. like believing that cats love us, not for the home and the food we offer.
Then, the culture that they expect the husband farangs, who should not drink and not go with other women and must support the family, ie ‘blackmail her husband into thinking that it is culture. but never, ever, their husbands respect that culture, they drink and unriacano not keep his wife and children economocamente. regularly beat their wives and go in search of young girls and the wife must stay silent. while the opposite occurs with the farang, given his naive ‘.
Thailand is well, eats and drinks with little money, there is no ‘great crime’ and the people in the streets and ‘good and always smiling …
… But when you compromise with a Thai woman, you will ‘always the upper hand on life and money farang …
but then want to have fun? go to Pattaya and other countries and see that beautiful little boy with a monster that even the imagination of Frankenstein would be able to build … I think those girls are really in love with the monsters? Thai woman and ‘a great example of how to’ deceive a farang and money they are more ‘that great ..
antonio
Antonio:
I started to try to rebut to your comment but ultimately I feel like I should let it speak for itself.
Ruai
Every man, deep down, knows he’s a worthless piece of shit. Overwhelmed by a sense of animalism and deeply ashamed of it; wanting, not to express himself, but to hide from others his total physicality, total egocentricity, the hate and contempt he feels for other men, and to hide from himself the hate and contempt he suspects other men feel for him; having a crudely constructed nervous system that is easily upset by the least display of emotion or feeling, the male tries to enforce a `social’ code that ensures perfect blandness.
Completely egocentric, unable to relate, empathize or identify, and filled with a vast, pervasive, diffuse sexuality, the male is pyschically passive. He hates his passivity, so he projects it onto women, defines the make as active, then sets out to prove that he is (`prove that he is a Man’). His main means of attempting to prove it is screwing (Big Man with a Big Dick tearing off a Big Piece).
His greatest need is to be guided, sheltered, protected and admired by Mama (men expect women to adore what men shrink from in horror — themselves) and, being completely physical, he yearns to spend his time (that’s not spent `out in the world’ grimly defending against his passivity) wallowing in basic animal activities — eating, sleeping, shitting, relaxing and being soothed by Mama.
Despising his highly inadequate self, overcome with intense anxiety and a deep, profound loneliness when by his empty self, desperate to attach himself to any female in dim hopes of completing himself, in the mystical belief that by touching gold he’ll turn to gold, the male craves the continuous companionship of women. The company of the lowest female is preferable to his own or that of other men, who serve only to remind him of his repulsiveness. But females, unless very young or very sick, must be coerced or bribed into male company.
Unable to give love or affection, the male gives money.
Daddy’s Girl, passive, adaptable, respectful of and in awe of the male, allows him to impose his hideously dull chatter on her. This is not too difficult for her, as the tension and anxiety, the lack of cool, the insecurity and self-doubt, the unsureness of her own feelings and sensations that Daddy instilled in her make her perceptions superficial and render her unable to see that the male’s babble is babble; like the aesthete `appreciating’ the blob that’s labeled `Great Art’, she believes she’s grooving on what bores the shit out of her. Not only does she permit his babble to dominate, she adapts her own `conversation’ accordingly.
Apart from pandering, her `conversation’ is further limited by her insecurity about expressing deviant, original opinions and the self-absorption based on insecurity and that prevents her conversation from being charming. Niceness, politeness, `dignity’, insecurity and self-absorption are hardly conducive to intensity and wit, qualities a conversation must have to be worthy of the name. Such conversation is hardly rampant, as only completely self-confident, arrogant, outgoing, proud, tough-minded females are capable of intense, bitchy, witty conversation.
Wow, Val. You sure have my number.
Jezzus guys, what’s not to love about overweight, self opinionated, pushy arrogant lumps of cellulite with various veins. (I mean varicose veins but I cant spell it.)
When you marry a Farang take a good look at her at the alter, because she will never look as good again.
When you marry an Issan girl take a good look at your wallet, because it’s the last you will see of the bloody thing.
Can I ask anyone who reads this to try and help me out of my confusion? I am constantly hearing about Thai women being so much more feminine and ladylike than farang women and I have come to the conclusion that somehow the rules on this subject have changed without my knowledge. I’m confused part 1- Chilling at the pool area of my apartment building the other day farang male appears with v.sexy looking Thai girl they mess about in the pool for a while,much giggling and playfulness ensues. Farangman exits pool and after a bit of swimming Thai girl starts to exit pool stopping halfway up stairs to hawk v.loudly from her throat and gob down the drain at the side of the pool farangman looks a bit uncomfortable I just shake my head. I’m confused part 2- Is it now considered feminine to squeeze the puss out of you and you’re friends zits, pick things out of each others hair,eat with your mouth open, pick your nose and generally act like an animal in public? Or is it that farang men turn a blind eye to all the bad things about Thai women because they can’t face the reality that the fantasy they built in their heads isn’t all it’s cracked up to be?
@Sara: Wow, this officially goes down in the books as the newest low in a farang woman attempting to make Thai women look bad. And the sad part is that even if part 1 were true . . . yes, she’s still more of a lady than most farang women.
Sorry to shatter your illusions BB but part 1 is 100% true. But I suppose if you like paying to stick your dick into something that is essentially a chimp in lipstick then who am I to argue. Also I don’t have to try to make Thai women look bad they do a fantastic job of that themselves.
Sara…
first you must consider what kind of farangs are in Thailand…the worst what is in their countryes…so, their consideration and compare with farangs women is almost so valid like nothing…
may be you should also look how many thai women are ugly, short and nowdays also fat.
I was in a meeting with government people 2 weeks ago and there were about 400 people and at least 200 women and believe me, not even one was decent looking.
Thai women look nicer and sexy in bigger city and in villages they are very ugly. They look nicer when they work at shops like friseur saloon, massages and beauty saloon and rest is very avarage. If you take some nice looking thai women or girls in centre of praha or of copenhagen or milano, then nobody see that they are so nice , they look short and not so smiling anymore and no man would notice them at all.
Yes there are many sexy girls and women in Thailand, especially because they are very cleaned and sweet smiling, but smile is just short like flash and never for nothing..they look also nice to farangs, because they are easy to get. A beautiful woman, very difficult to get, does not look beautiful anymore to whom is looking for sex, because they feel that men dont have chance with her. In Thailand every man farang, with money can have sex with almost every woman, not only met at bars, also if he meet her at supermarket or at massage saloon or selling food. But only if farang pays.
In thailand love does not exist, or is not like we think and farangs are too stupid to understand …according to thai culture love + money…if you are rich, the girls loves you very much and if you are poor the same girls loves you very very little.
Especially farangs must be rich, because if a thai women has long relation with thai women, all other people around will ask her of how much she got and dont care if farangs is 40 years older…if he pay=s he get love, otherwise…no love no party..
but the problems is that she loves farangs with money and like to have sex with younger thai men and farangs is blind, because she smiles and farangs will be blind for shining smile…
But “dolicis infundus” (is not my taste).. believe or not…the most beautiful women in Thailand are men…ladyboys
antonio
…correction on test above……if a farang (…not if a thai woman…) has relation with thai woman….
I want to add to that also that farangs go to thailand as I said, because in their countryes they have no chance with western women and that in Thailand in many place
(not everywhere) is possible spend a night with a thai girl also for 300 bath (8 us dollars) and some other places about 2 dollars more and in pattaya for example ( I do research for professional informations)for 10 or 20 or 30 us dollars, while im most western countryes the coast is of about at least 10 times more and western prostitutes would not go with same ugly fat old skinny (frankenstein productions)….but thai women dont care, as long as they see money…
so, under these condition, is very normal and understanding that farangs prefer thai women…farangs prefer thai prostitutes to western prostitutes…not valid to compare thai women with western women, because farangs only know prostitutes…
antonio
@Sara: I hate to shatter your illusions but I really can’t even remember the last time I paid for sex. But I will say this, I would rather pay to have sex with a street hooker in Thailand than get free sex from most farang women.
The fact that you call them chimps in lipstick just goes to show how much better they are than you.
And isn’t it really very sad, even if you are true, that your countrymen would fly 6000 miles around the world to meet these chimps with lipstick rather than try to talk to you?
For every bitter woman who wants to knock Thai women, keep in mind that men are flying half way across the world to meet these women rather than deal with you.
@Antonio: What kind of farangs come to Thailand? We’re all losers? I make well over 100,000 GBP a year from my businesses back in Europe and investments. I live here because I have the means to live here not because I can’t live elsewhere.
Most of my friends own businesses here too and make good money as well. Don’t assume because you have a good job you can look down on everyone else.
And you have to be joking if you say there were 200 Thai women in a room and none of them were attractive. I say that not because I think Thai women are especially attractive but even a retard could understand the basic statistics to know that you can’t randomly assemble 200 women in any country without having several attractive women in the group.
We all have our own connotations of what is attractive and not attractive but your statement is completely unbelievable. That also means that everything that follows contains the same level of bullshit.
Also read what I wrote above about not paying for sex. Four of the last ten women I have dated come from families that have more money than I do and I’ve already told you what kind of money I make.
What frustrates me is that you talk about all Thai women based on some stereotype of Issan women which may not even be necessarily accurate.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t defend everything Thai. Just tonight I had a good Thai friend really disappoint me. But what you are Sara are saying is just ignorant and racist.
It’s like many people try to do. They live their lives on Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza and try to tell you about the entirety of Thailand based on their interactions with whores. Being a whore is a pretty self-selecting group. And in a country of nearly 70 million people to base your perceptions on the entire culture based on the 200,000 or so people who willingly choose to be hookers seems about as sane as interviewing a bunch of French, Germany, English or American hookers and claiming you know those countries based on what you’ve been told.
@BB-The fact that you admit to paying for sex says it all really. You are obviously one of the many men out here who just can’t accept that Thai women like women of all races have faults. I see so many men out here sitting in bars, restaurants ect with a Thai woman not talking to each other at all (because they can’t) or she is the equivalent to a nodding dog. How intellectually stimulating that must be. Is it not the case that men fly 6000 miles to spend money on what is essentially an extremely low class version of a stepford wife. Men like you seem to get a bit upset when a woman expresses an opinion, it’s understandable, it’s taking you out of your comfort zone. Quite frankly the type of men who come to Thailand to meet women I wouldn’t touch with my worst enemy’s vagina. My health means far too much to me.
@Sara, again darling, I hate to be the one who breaks bad news to you but show me a guy who hasn’t paid for sex and I’ll show you a liar. With movie stars and sports heros all paying for it don’t even try to play the “you have to pay for it” game. At least I’m being honest.
I never said Thai women have no faults. They have plenty of faults just like everyone else. The difference between you and me is that I don’t call an entire race of people apes with lipstick.
And if you think that Thai women are like Stepford wives you have no clue whatsoever about Thai people.
Sara, you’re a racist piece of trash. It’s exactly that kind of attitude that farang men want nothing to do with when they come here. Personally, I have nothing against farang women. There are lots of lovely women out there. But it’s the bitter little cunts like you that help define how many men view farang women.
What do you think any guy is going to think when he reads your words? They drip with bitterness, racism, and rage. Another farang woman who can’t get laid in Thailand and decides to blame Thai women for her problem. YOU’RE THE PROBLEM!!! It’s this attitude. It’s this contempt. That’s why nobody wants to talk with you.
This is starting to get very sad.
Billy
I just want to remind everyone to keep things civil. Sara, your comments are beginning to border on racism and any further comments like “chimps with lipstick” will be deleted.
And Billy Bangkok, watch the language.
to say…I have never paid a woman in thailand for sex, is same like…i never pay elettricity at my home…means that they expect that you pay and then they discover that you dont and cut your electricity…But if mean that you dont pay because you are good looking, then you are milions miles away to tell true…thai women dont care so much for beauty of men, they care for money first…in most of thai family, people dont work and parents are sick, then farangs who have sex with girl in that family must pay, or do you think that they live eat and buy medicine with your love only? besides, i speak thai very well and I hear what women say about farangs…try learn the language and you will be underschock. In each country, we look how many beautiful women are and we dont look the others…try count and will see if I am not right, most of them are avarage or ugly and when you seee a beautiful one you think that most of women are beautiful…but then..beautiful when they are 145 or 150 and 155 tall? may be in thailand that is beauty, but i repeat, when they are in western world, their beauty disappear amongst tall blond or brunette danish italian french russian and so on …be realistic. Have you ever seen a thai woman miss world? if you find a tall thai woman, be sure, she will have a farang father., because avarage height of thai woman is 155 and in western country, if a woman is so short, we would not even notice that she is there…
Besides, tell me, if in thailand prices for food and accomodation will be like in new york, sydney, Berlin, rome and so on and everything so expensive like in western world, farang would be in thailand at least 90% less.
But if most of farangs have no chance in their country…and that is a fact..how is possible to compare with a woman who need money and come with you and a woman who is indipendent and can choose her partner…?
according to thai culture…and is really so officially …a thai woman can love only (apart some rare exception) only if the man pay her need and need of her family and more. all people around, parents, relative and friends will ask her how much she has got from man (also from thai men) and they would not allow you have marriage without payng a lot and buy her a house and more much more…
then after marriage, some years after, you will see hpw much she will get from you…always asking more and more..
May be you are a white fly if you say that you have sex without payng or a big lier, because none can control what you say.
If you want have sex in thailand itself, with russian, czech polish prostitutes in samui and other places, you must pay at least 10 times more than a thai girls…why that? because men pay 10 times more with women who look uglyer?
Again…go to some ot the hundred thousend svillages and tell me how many beautiful women tou find…one per cent. mostly small thin like skelets or fat like meatballs…
If you want to tell me that they are friendly, no danger like in west, very inexpensive to live, i agree that thailand is wanderful. Lets be honest…should i send you film of the many government party i was and show you how very very few women look decent? shall I send you the same meeting i had in Prague you will be lost of words of how many over beautiful women are there…(but they dont go with just anyone like in thailand)you want to see the many photos of mosterns looking farangs with small nice looking lady? dot you think that is only money love story…this is under the eyes of everybody who is in Thailand…
I agree only that farangs women are very fassy and complicated and loose feminility to compare to thai…but again, their feminility is also part of their weaponn to survive or to improve their economic situations…
antonio
@Antonio: I hate the break the news to you but many guys simply aren’t into the farang look. Even when I’m back home I usually date Asian women. What I like and what you like may not be the same but to attempt to universally define beauty is a bit pompous if you ask me.
And there are plenty of tall women in Thailand. You really make yourself sound ignorant to say otherwise. Either that or you’re hanging out at the midget factory. True, on average, Thai women are shorter than farang women but, on average, Latino women are shorter than farang women yet somehow they seem to win Miss Universe (3 of the last 5 winners are Latino and 1 of the non-Latinos was . . . Japanese). The only Caucasian woman to win in the last 5 years is Canadian. Oh, a dark skinned, dark haired Canadian born in Russia. Interestingly, she married a Thai guy and lives in Thailand
Here’s a shot of Miss Thai Universe:
http://www.sexythais.info/2008/06/23/miss-thailand-universe-fashion/
Ruai
PS. Learn the power of a paragraph.
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