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Why Farang Men Like Thai Girls And Hate Farang Women
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I have a good mate who is married to a non-Thai woman. Although separated by several continents she has many of the same values as a Thai woman. They were having dinner one night with a farang couple. My mate’s wife offhandedly mentioned that sometimes when her husband gets home from work she’ll pour a basin of water and wash his feet.
The farang woman was aghast. She, in her self-righteous zeal, berated the wife for being subservient. She told her she should more pride in herself and not allow herself to be treated like a slave.
The wife, biting her tongue as best she could, told the farang woman that she doesn’t do it because he expects her to. For her it is a way of showing appreciation. Her husband provides for her very well and they own several beautiful homes. She wants for nothing. She went on to tell the farang that her husband is a loving and caring man who attends to her emotionally as well as financially and that she loves him very much. She asked why it should seem so strange to do something for her husband that he finds relaxing and enjoying.
Like I said, she was biting her tongue as best she could but her feelings were eventually betrayed in her last sentence on the topic. "Perhaps if you Western women showed your husbands some respect and appreciation for being a good husband the divorce rate in your country wouldn’t be over 50%."
This interaction is a perfect illustration of why so many farang men fall in love with Thai women. It also serves to illustrate why so many farang women simply cannot grasp why farang men seem to prefer Thai women. The farang women think they know but they are as wrong as first timer to Thailand who can’t see past the Thai smile.
Farang women, generally, think that farang men are attracted to Thai women is because they are submissive. They think the men are attracted because they can get a girlfriend half their age. They think that the men are attracted to the tight little Asian bodies.
The farang woman is correct but only to a certain degree. Yes, men are attracted to those things but there’s more to it than just that. Farang men also want to feel appreciated and respected. Yet, as the story told above demonstrates your average farang woman would never lower themselves. Farang women cherish their equality too much to do something that seems to them to be so one-sided.
However there’s an inequality in most farang / farang relationships. By that I mean that when you weigh all of the tangible and intangible qualities each party brings to the relationship the man, generally, is bringing more to the table than the woman. For instance, in few farang / farang marriages does the husband earn less than the wife. Likewise, you’re far more likely to find an attractive man married to an average looking woman than to find an attractive woman married to an average looking man. There are no absolutes here but just going by the numbers this is more true than not.
So you have these inequalities in most relationships. I know that’s a hard pill for some people to swallow but one only need to look at the number of men who graduate with degrees in economics, mathematics, computer science, medicine, and the other hard sciences vs. the number of women. Men, just going by the numbers, are more likely to be the higher earner. So right from the starting blocks you have an income discrepancy between the two. In order for the relationship to equalize she needs to bring something of the same value to the relationship.
Unfortunately, Western women cherish the concept of equality too much. Tell a secretary making £30,000 a year that she needs to bring something extra to the table in order to marry a software engineer making £60,000 and, rightly or wrongly, she’ll accuse you of being a chauvinist. So men just tend to accept that as part of life. Tradition says that their job is to be the primary earner so they accept it unquestioningly.
But there’s a catch. Even though, traditionally, that means that the woman should shoulder more of the household chores and generally try to provide a good home life for her husband who has been fulfilling his traditional role, many farang women feel that that role is outdated and beneath them. Whether that is true or not is not for me to answer but in one way or the other the woman has to bring things back to balance or the relationship simply isn’t going to work. Perhaps she’s much more attractive than her husband. That might even things out. Maybe she’s a wildcat in the sack. That might balance things out. Maybe she knows just when and just how to stroke her husband’s ego. Maybe that’s what evens things out. I don’t know what it is as it will be different for different couples but without the balance the relationship is doomed.
I believe this is why you often see so much hostility directed at farang women by farang men who have been fortunate enough to have a relationship with a Thai woman. Even if they don’t fully realize it consciously, it dawns on them that they’ve been getting the short end of the stick in most relationships. And like finding out your girlfriend has been sleeping around on you behind your back the farang man feels humiliated for being taken for such a fool. His rage is often so out of proportion with the actual damage done that he dismisses all farang women as . . . . well, I could list several derogatory terms here but I’ll allow the reader to fill in his/her own.
Personally, I don’t hate farang women. I don’t date them very often nowadays but I don’t hate them. I do prefer to date Thai women. Not for the reasons that most farang women might think but because Thai women tend to try to balance out the relationship. Obviously you cannot talk about an entire sex and not have exceptions. There are Thai women who’s mind set is more like the farang women I’ve described and there are farang women who have an outlook more like the Thai women I describe. That’s why I try to steer clear of making sweeping statements and say things like "tend to" or "normally."
It’s funny because most farang men have brainwashed themselves into believing many of the same things as farang women. I guess it’s natural since we come from the same culture. I remember the first time it really struck me. She was Thai with a good job, had a post-graduate degree, and was certainly not the poor farmer’s daughter stereotype. We were having dinner and when the food arrived she served me and then herself. When my water glass was half empty (or half full depending on how you look at it) she would fill it.
I was a little uncomfortable with that so I indicated she didn’t need to serve me. She insisted gently saying "You relax. I take care of you." As I thought about it, it made sense. If she likes you then demonstrating that she can be a good girlfriend or wife is very important to her. It would be the same as a guy holding a door open or pulling the seat out for his date. This is her way of saying that she likes me and that this is one of the qualities she intends to bring to the relationship.
Perhaps farang women will think she was being subservient but I thought of it as part of the dance we call dating. I show my ability to provide by taking her to a nice place to eat and she reciprocates by demonstrating that she can be a caring girlfriend. If anything, instead of viewing it as an act of weakness, as being subservient would imply, I viewed it as a sign that she was not the type of woman who would only take from the relationship without giving back. Obviously, a respectable quality.
Now if one contrasts that with a normal farang / farang date you start to recognize how the whole relationship imbalance manifests itself. It’s very difficult for a woman to screw up on a date unless she doesn’t show up, passes out drunk, or belches at the table. It’s hard for her to screw up the date because she is not the one auditioning. The man is primarily the one who is auditioning. So on a normal farang / farang date the man is expected to demonstrate all of the qualities that he can bring into the relationship and the woman will either approve (agree to a second date) or disapprove (decline a second date) without ever revealing her hand.
On a farang / Thai date both the man and woman are auditioning equally. This is true equality and I find it refreshingly honest which is why I prefer to date Thai women. When I date a Thai woman I feel as if I actually have some control over the situation. It is as much up to her to impress me as it is for me to impress her. I don’t want to say it makes you feel as if you have more power than you do in a farang / farang relationship but it’s the difference between a job interview where the company has specifically recruited you because of your unique talents and a job interview after you’ve been laid off during a recession. In one you feel like you’re in a position of control. If the company wants you then they need to demonstrate that they can provide you with the working environment and compensation that you feel entitled to. In the other scenario you’re just happy to have gotten the interview. You know what you think you’re worth but the phone isn’t exactly ringing off the hook so you’ll probably take whatever they offer even if it’s not what you think is fair.
One needs to look no farther than romantic imagery in the media to see how imbalanced the relationship process is in farang / farang relationships. How does a man show he loves a woman? He buys her roses, chocolates, diamonds, gold, and other gifts. If he’s truly the romantic type he does something huge like fly her off to Paris for an amorous holiday. How does a woman show she loves her husband? Well if we are to believe the media representation of farang / farang relationships then a peck on the cheek might be ample reward for those chocolates. Giving him sex might be the payoff for a diamond ring or a Paris holiday.
The idea of a man constantly showing his wife with gifts and affection is seen as romantic. The idea of a woman who showers her husband with signs of affection is seen as weak and of low self-esteem. In fact, if we’re to believe the media then the best gift a wife can give her husband is to leave him alone. How is the husband rewarded for mowing the lawn and taking care of the manly household chores? He’s allowed to watch football on television. What is the husband’s reward for taking his wife out to go see a "chick flick" which bored him to tears? He gets to go hang out with his mates for a boys night out.
Better yet, can you imagine seeing on television a show where after taking his wife out for a very expensive and romantic dinner his wife offered to give him a foot massage? Not the rub your big toe and then try to have sex type of massage but a proper hour long foot massage? Yet it would seem normal if a woman comes home from an exhausting day at the office, kicks off her shoes, and her husband massages her feet as she explains everything she’s been through that day. We call that kind of man romantic. In fact, that is the message that Western media promotes. Men being subservient to women is romantic and women being subservient to men is chauvinistic.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to say that love with a farang woman can’t be found or that you can’t find a farang woman who won’t jump through hoops to make the relationship as equal as possible but it’s much rarer in the Western world than in Thailand. From a social point of view this change in how equality has only occurred over the last 50 or 60 years. Back then you had housewives who took pride in performing their traditional roles. Interestingly, according to the University of Maryland, between 1950 and 2000 the number of divorces per 1000 women married more than doubled. Also of note is that the highest rate of divorce was during the 1970’s when women’s activism was at it’s peak. That’s obviously not enough data to make any sort of direct correlation but this blog post isn’t a PhD thesis so allow me some latitude.
And just as I’m not saying that finding love with a farang woman is impossible, I’m also not saying that Thai women are a piece of cake either. In addition to things like language and cultural issues you also have people who just don’t possess the qualities you look for in a partner and/or possess personality defects. I’ve dated more than a few girls who I hope to never see again even as a friend.
The bottom line is that I don’t agree with the people who think all farang women are fat, whining, bitches nor do I agree with the people who say that any man who dates a Thai woman is doing so for the sex, subservient attitude, or because he’s too much of a loser to find women back in the West. There are some very valid reasons why guys like to date Thai women and there are some very valid reasons why they don’t want to date Western women. It’s all about what we hope to find in a relationship. For instance, I have a mate I’ve known for well over 20 years. I’ve seen him go through countless relationships. The only long-term relationships he seems to have are with women who are controlling and dominating. He likes to be a bad boy. When he’s with submissive women he runs right over them. When he runs into a woman who wants to control him and tame him that is when he is the most happy. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work for me at all. I could never date the type of women he dates and he would never have a meaningful relationship with a Thai girl. We’re just wired differently.
That holds true for all men. There are some of us who aren’t satisfied with the type of women we meet in the West. That doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with those women. They just need to find someone who’s looking for that personality type. For us unsatisfied men, there are aspects of Thai culture that produce women who we’re more compatible with. Different strokes for different folks.
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28 responses so far
June 22nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
You are right! Added to that is the women’s porno (romance novels) that teach a western worm to “tame” her man. If you read them they are all the same “wild bad boy” fall for herione “reforms into submissive husband.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
I have to say, as a Farang woman new to Asia with no preconceptions - the vast majority of Farang men with Thai women I have seen have been pretty ugly and would have struggled to find a woman in another country as attractive as their Thai girlfriend. But I have also seen a lot of tired and bored looking Thai women with fat, pasty Western men - rather them than me. I don’t have a judgment - all relationships have an element of selfishness to them. It’s good to be all open about this but when it all comes down to it a lot of these men are getting beautiful women because of their wallets - lets face it. And rather than acting aggressive a lot of Western men I have seen tend to act ‘guilty’ when they see me - they know the score and their look is one of a child who has eaten sweets before dinner. I guess I am more old fashioned than these farang men and possibly some of the Thai women because I favour love over money. Maybe that’s why I’m single eh??
July 10th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Hi Trudie,
I appreciate your views on this. Good to see a farang woman’s point of view.
I would say though that women going with guys for money isn’t a Thai thing. Obviously that happens in the West all of the time. Isn’t that what television shows like Sex and the City teach us? There are guys you might bang because it would be fun, they’re great lovers, and they really peak your interest, but you marry the safe and stable so you don’t end up supporting your paycheck to paycheck loverboy.
But I would also say that it’s more than just about money with many Thai women. A lot of them like how Western men appreciate them. Your average Western male treats women as equals . . . or even better than equal. In a Thai / Thai relationship the female is certainly on a lower level than her husband.
There’s also the issue that Thai women go to university at a rate far higher than men so it’s much harder for a single Thai woman to meet a university educated Thai male. If she enjoys the company of a man who is educated and is motivated then her chances she might be attracted to a Western male.
There are a lot of reasons Thai women are attracted to Western men. Many of the poorest are in it for the money. I don’t envy those guys but I don’t feel sorry for them either. They’ve made a choice to exchange the companionship of a beautiful woman for providing for her financially. Fair deal for both if that is what they both understand up front.
But there are many Thai/Farang relationships that are built on more than that. I think at least some of the “guilty” looks you get are your perception. I know that when I get a stare from a farang woman when I’m with a university educated Thai woman working in a good job that look you might see on my face is embarrassment for the girl since I know the first thought running through the farang woman’s head is that the girl is with me only for my money.
Billy
July 10th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I think prostitution comes in many forms. And shows like Sex in the City are following the values which seem to want to emasculate men. All the men in sex and the city are losers and the subtext is that only mr big is worth anything - he’s loaded. I hate sex in the city personally. I also find most men don’t know the meaning of the words ‘great lover’ as many men are selfish and I’ve never been interested in ’safe and stable’ - I think this is yet another stereotype of women. And I have never met a man who I can depend on financially - why do men always say that?? where are these men with big paychecks??
Women want masterful men - strength and kindness. Your average Western man doesn’t treat women like equals at all I have to say. I don’t agree with that. I don’t think Thai women are on a lower level. I like to show tenderness to a man and feel like a ‘female’ - my ‘problem’ is that I expect to be treated with respect in return. There is nothing nicer for any woman the world over than to feed, wash, bathe, stroke and massage her man but what most women don’t want is just to get a few baht in return!!
The issue is that western women have got over the Cinderella story and have been bombarded with messages that a man cannot make you complete and so they’ve gone with this and then thought - ‘actually you’re right and not only can they not make me happy but they actually piss me off and I’m not going to stand for it’ - and so they start having fun, being independent and men are like ‘god, farang women are so ballsy and aggressive’ - we can’t win and however women have acted - whether they’re on 100k a year or bathing your feet in fresh ylang ylang flowers we are always in the wrong it seems!
I’ve only been in Bangkok for weeks rather than months so I’m only going off what I see - I was surprised at the ‘guilty’ looks and it is definitely there - I was quite surprised - the only reason I say it is because I have experienced it - I met a farang guy with his asian wife the other day - now they might have the best relationship in the world but what came across was he was desperately trying to act like they really got on and had this great thing going - I’m not saying she was using him for his money but there was no spark. I see farang men with Asian women who are obviously friends, colleagues and genuine relationships - you can spot those because they also stand out. I saw a loved up couple in a bar the other week - him farang and she Thai and they were obviously completely smitten.
Yes, not all farang/Thai relationships are about money. I know a fair few Thai women who don’t bow down to the mighty dollar. And it isn’t my first thought but lets face it - all those ugly men with beautiful women - they know they wouldn’t have a cat in hells chance if they didn’t have a white face!!
Somewhere on here I saw farang women vs Thai women as if there is some sort of competition - women are not in competition. I actually enjoy being a female farang out here - it is the first time in my life I have felt remotely exotic and coming from England that’s a big deal!!! And I also have to say that although good looking western men who haven’t gone to seed are not that common here I have had loads of attention. In a few weeks I have been approached, chatted up and asked out be a few men. You posters take the view that every farang woman is jealous of Thai women. I think Thai women are attractive and great - I think all women are. I’m young, single, attractive, blonde and loving Bangkok, enjoying my job and all the boring farang men can go out with as many Thai beauties as they please - rather that than hassling me!!
July 10th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Hi Trudie,
Perhaps you should consider doing a post here. We accept all points of view.
I’ve even been trying to recruit some Thai women to share their thoughts and views.
And I’m not sure if you’re implying that I share some of these points of view but I’m trying to look at this as a completely objective observer. Of course you’re going to have to make some generalizations. That’s the tradeoff in writing about any sort of social trend.
So while you may hate Sex and the City, the fact that it’s a massive hit in the US and has even been turned into a feature film speaks loudly that this isn’t some isolated outlook on men. And for men, I think the show can be best summed up by Brian (the dog) on Family Guy when he asks “So the show is about three prostitutes and their mother?”
While you may not be passing judgment stay in BKK a few more months and meet some of your farang girlfriends. You’ll see a lot of resentment out there. And if you probe any deeper you’ll hear words like “prostitute” and “whore” sprinkled liberally in their conversations about Thai women.
Are all women of that opinion? No, but the ones who are, are in great enough numbers and vocal enough to make most men feel this is a common view of them and their girlfriends.
Similarly there are a lot of aging men who are latching onto the first thing that doesn’t say “no.” I know a lot of farangs with Thai girlfriends and most of them are in very serious relationships not based on money. Hell, some of these guys are school teachers
I don’t think you and I disagree as much as you think we do. You notice in my article I write about the tension and the anger coming out of inequality. And even you state that you would love to treat a man if you felt you were getting equal in return. That is the perfect relationship. Give and take equally.
That is the point of the post. Farang men hate Western women because they don’t feel they are getting treated equally back in the West and Western women see these Thai women giving to their partner and they call them whores.
I don’t hate Western women. I am trying to describe why some men do. I am also trying to articulate why some farang women hate Thai women. It’s an observation about human behavior rather than an endorsement of their views.
I would suggest you read one of my other posts where I give the men an examination that you seldom see. Most guys are so beaten down by Western society that when they come to Thailand they are suckers for getting into bad relationships for the wrong reasons.
http://www.bangkokdiaries.com/2008/07/02/tongue-tied-farangs/
Again, I encourage you to take me up on the offer to post your own posts on here. I would really enjoy to hear your points of view as you begin to settle into Thailand.
Billy
July 10th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I did read the other article. And I have to say that I haven’t met that many women who hate other women. I know there are genuine relationships but from what I have seen so far there are a lot of ugly white guys with Thai women who are with them because they are farang and no other reason.
Western men don’t allow western women to be feminine- most western men seem to either want a girl who looks up to him and won’t compete or they want a woman with money who will take care of them. In England I found that if I let on that I was intelligent a lot of men weren’t as interested as if I just listened to them talking about themselves. Women’s liberation has meant that men don’t like us any more. I do agree that women in the west could learn how to be more gentle with their men but this works both ways.
I think the problem is that many western career women have is that they see men for what they are and don’t like them. I personally see men for who they are and choose when I like them. A few years ago we were all being told - by a man - that we should read men are from mars and women are from venus - if only eh? Men might be from mars and we all know about ‘the cave’ but there was one big drawback with the book - men don’t read that kind of shite.
I think the resentment from farang women in BKK is that they feel that it always has been a man’s world. Yoko Ono might be slightly batty but she had a point when she said ‘women are the niggers of the world.’ And she’s Asian.
I do understand farang’s excitement at realising there is a breed of woman who laughs at all your jokes, is stick thin and will look after your every need. I too had a relationship with someone who I had nothing intellectually in common with - he was young, funny, unthreatening, thin, neat and looked after me - it was absolute bliss! He wasn’t challenging in the least and after a hard day at the office it was the perfect tonic. So just like a lot of farang men on here I don’t like their suited and booted claptrap - it bores the pants off me - jabbering into his mobile, eating burgers, sell sell sell - meetings and boozy lunches - no thanks! But the only difference I suppose is I I don’t have to pay 1000 baht for it - it’s free!
July 10th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Trudie,
I have to assume that either you’re filtering a bit or not being completely honest. Even most women would laugh at the statement “I haven’t met that many women who hate other women.” Women are catty. Women are always comparing themselves to each other and always seem to have a catty statement for women who they think that they’re better than.
“Western men don’t allow western women to be feminine- most western men seem to either want a girl who looks up to him and won’t compete or they want a woman with money who will take care of them.”
Please. If women acted feminine most men would be in seventh heaven. Have you ever hung out in a bar in NYC, LA, LON, or any other major city and heard women who have mouths that would embarrass a sailor. It’s not about women being allowed to be feminine but the fact that women are becoming less and less feminine.
“I do understand farang’s excitement at realising there is a breed of woman who laughs at all your jokes, is stick thin and will look after your every need.”
No Trudie, it’s not about that. You seem to be caught up in this whole “man’s world” thing. And from a man’s perspective it’s anything but. Men live in a world where in which to have any chance to even hope of hooking up with a woman they have to risk extreme humiliation. You asked why women aren’t “allowed” to be feminine well who’s forcing them to say “Fuck off asshole” when a guy walks up and says “Hi, I was wondering if I could buy you a drink.”
That’s what guys see. They see every interaction with a female as a potentially emasculating experience. Some get numb to it and those are the assholes you are probably talking about. They just say “Fuck it. They don’t care about my feelings why should I treat her any better than a common whore?”
If you did read my other post you’ll note that a key theme in there is that Asian women are simply more polite about it. If they have no interest they will be coy or act too shy to give out their phone number. Most would never be overtly rude and confrontational. That is what men like about Thai women. The fact that when treated with respect the guy will also be treated with respect.
You came into this thread saying you didn’t pre-judge but your last statement says a lot about what you have going on in your head.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:30 am
You need to hang out with more intelligent women. I actually find that women are a lot more supportive of each other than men are of each other. I know what you are saying about women being competitive with each other - I usually know I look good when the women’s mouths are open more than the mens. I have to say that I don’t say catty things about other women and none of my friends do either. I know some women do but it isn’t all women and when the chips are down women are there for each other to listen to each other droning on about what the sub text was of some random comment a man made.
I find that men want to have the upper hand - the power if you like - they like you to act girly and silly but not many men actually are strong and masterful enough to really respond to a real woman acting feminine. And I’m not talking about in a bar either - I’m talking about one on one. I am completely feminine but I still find men get their boxers in a twist about the fact that I am more intelligent possibly than them or stronger in some way. It is a subject that bores me. I prefer dating men who don’t give a shit about trying to act intellectually superior.
And I think I can see your problem - you are meeting catty women at the wrong bars. Most of the women I know wonder why men are so timid about approaching them.
I think men like more than the fact that Thai women politely turn them down don’t you???? After another week of seeing ancient farang men with young Thai beauties I still come down to the basic fact that this is an in it for what you can get scenario. Fair dos but some of us want a different type of relationship.
Men have been feeling weak and emasculated by themselves and by women from the year dot. I’m guessing that’s possibly why it is men, not women who commit rapes. I am guessing that is why it is men, not women who go around killing each other. I suppose that is why men, not women, can’t talk about their feelings. And before you jump on this - I am not saying all men are raping murdering bastards. I am just saying that there are less women who rape and murder. Now why is that? Men have had the upper hand with women for far too long and now that women are realising that men are right - it is far better to go out, have a good time and sleep with a gorgeous body, they are fast realising that there is more to life than a night in cooking his tea. And like the emotionally developed souls they are, men are throwing their toys out the pram and blaming women as they’re left floudering with their own inadequecies. The women who are telling you to ‘fuck off’ are in a way saying ‘diddums’ Women have known what it’s like to lose their identity. Maybe some of the things you are seeing should bring out the feminist in you eh?
And just for the record, despite being a bright, attractive woman I can’t remember the last time a man offered to buy me a drink - so maybe you are right that they are not doing that any more. All my single friends wonder why no men will approach them and they’re all lovely good looking women. The only time men approach is often when they are drunk out of their minds and they rub themselves against you in a club. Maybe I’m going to the wrong places too eh?
Well I hope that my thread did say a lot about what is going on in my head or else it would be pretty pointless.I don’t pre-judge about what I think about women in Thailand who are financially and socially in a weaker position sleeping with older Western men who are paying for love. I’m not so sure what I think about that. I suppose I’d like to see Thai women having better options possibly.
I do have opinions though and some pretty strong ones you will have noticed.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:34 am
Trudie,
I just don’t get you. Seriously. You automatically assume things about me that you could have no way of knowing. One of my last serious farang girlfriends was a Harvard grad and VP at a film studio. I have dated women who are strippers and women who are VP’s at Fortune 500 companies. I have no problem whatsoever dating beautiful and smart women. I even have no problem if they make more than I do.
What this is about is what I prefer. I prefer the Thai approach to relationships. Not because I don’t want to get my boxers in a twist by being challenged by a woman but because I prefer to be with a woman who isn’t so insecure that if she is smarter she needs to flaunt it in my face.
Notice a running theme throughout your posts? You keep talking about relationships being a struggle for one or the other to be superior. I prefer the Thai way which just appreciates that both parties bring different things to the relationship. There is no attempt to
No, you are not going to bring out the feminist in me. I don’t have any desire to be a feminist. Feminism implies a struggle between the sexes and that is exactly what men are reacting to. I don’t want someone who’s so pre-occupied with the fight for superiority that she can’t appreciate and contribute to the relationship. I prefer not to date women who look at every word or action and see it as a potential insult to their womanhood.
And I think you get it wrong in that we’re blaming anything on anybody. As I have said previously, I prefer Asian women. I specifically prefer Thai women. That is my choice. I have dated many quality women in the US and Europe and the women who make me feel the most loved are the Thai. Hands down. Farang women don’t even rate a close second. I don’t blame farang women for that. That is just how I see the world.
Sorry,
Billy
July 15th, 2008 at 3:53 am
I was trying to talk about the subject in a wider sense. You keep talking about yourself. Good for you if you prefer Thai girls and seems strange that you have dated strippers and fortune 500 women - what about women in between - like most of them????
Your response kind of closes the subject as you have failed to grasp onto some of the wider implications and reasons behind some of this blaming of women which has come out on some of these posts.
Men might be reacting to a struggle but don’t men create that struggle. As I have said I can understand why you don’t want to be challenged in the way that you see western women acting but I have to say that men brought that on themselves to a certain degree by treating women like shit.
You don’t have to be sorry for your taste in women. As I keep saying I too look for gentleness and kindness in a partner. It is rare coming from western men too so I guess in a roundabout way you now know what women have felt for years - except you guys are lucky now because you can wave your wallets and the women come flocking. And you can tell me a million times that it isn’t about this but I haven’t seen a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise and I came out here thinking that maybe it wasn’t as simple as money but do you know what it sort of is. Not being critical just a statement of what is staring me in the face.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:16 am
what about women in between - like most of them????
That assumption is built in.
you have failed to grasp onto some of the wider implications
Yes, you have failed to convert me into a feminist. I hope this really does close the subject for you and you move onto ThaiVisa or some other site.
Men might be reacting to a struggle but don’t men create that struggle.
You’ve obviously never head of the phrase it takes two to tango. There’s a struggle because both sides are fighting.
And you can tell me a million times that it isn’t about this but I haven’t seen a lot of evidence to suggest otherwise and I came out here thinking that maybe it wasn’t as simple as money but do you know what it sort of is.
Unlike Farangland where beautiful, attractive, and intelligent women never date ugly guys with lots of money.
You make less and less sense in each post.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:39 am
And now for something completely different!
I stumbled across this blog because I have a male (Western) friend who is moving to Thailand because of its beauty - and, I think, because he feels that he’ll be able to get laid by pretty Thai prostitutes without any demands or complications. He seems to loathe any woman who caters to him in the least. The more distant (and almost indifferent) the woman is, the better.
The interesting thing is that I am a Western woman who would be only too happy to cater to a Western guy - not every moment of the day and night (that would be pretty cloying), but doing nice, pampering things is, I think, wonderful . When I read about the woman who washed her husband’s feet, I thought “what a great idea”. Sadly, most Western men I’ve met would be completely put off by that kind of gesture, interpreting it as being “smothered” by the woman. Fortunately, I have recently (finally!) found a Western guy who likes that kind of thing. Now I have to focus on finding kind things to do for him (I’ve almost forgotten how!), and the foot-washing is a great idea - thanks!!
July 19th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Sally,
Don’t feel like you have to come up with new things. A guy will know when you appreciate him for who he is.
As I tried to explain, unsuccessfully, to Trudie, guys just want to feel like we’re getting a fair deal. When a guy is the primary earner and his wife expects to be treated as an equal when she earns half what he does it creates friction in the realationship.
I don’t mean to sound like as ass but when I’m earning twice what my partner is earning I really don’t care for her to spend two hours telling me how hard her day was. I want to decompress. Guys just want to feel appreciated for bringing home the bulk of the family salary.
If the woman is bringing down the bulk of the money then I think the guy should be kissing her ass. Likewise if the guy is bringing in the bulk of the shared salary then the women should be treating the guy to some perks when he gets home from a hard day at work.
I don’t mean to sound like if two people are equal one should be subserviant to the other. But if one person in the relationship is putting in more than the other then the other party needs to equal things out.
Sally, you sound like the true gem that most guys would be falling all over to meet. Unfortunately you’re in the minority in terms of Western women. Guys like Thai women because your attitude is the norm for Thai women. In Farangland it’s the exception.
Your friend may well be moving to Thailand to bang prostitutes. On the other hand he might be moving to Thailand because he enjoys the equality that Thai women offer. There’s a very fine line at times and it’s hard to tell what guys really appreciate about Thai women.
I wish you lots of luck in your current relationship. I hope your man appreaciates what you do for him. If not, give me a ping because I would love to meet a Western woman who is as open minded as yourself
Billy
August 12th, 2008 at 10:57 am
record submissions…
Some weblog software programs, such as Wordpress, Movable Type and Community Server, support automatic pingbacks where all the links…
August 25th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
seems like the vast majority of western men in thailand have women from low end of thai society. am told by thai men they do not find most of these these women attractive from either physical or intellectual(LOL) perspective.
where else in the world could “jackie gleason with tattoos” hear “hello handsome man” repeatedly????
anyway “to each his/her own” as the saying goes.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Since you mention “inellectual(LOL) perspective”:
One thing to wonder about is why anyone would concern themselves with who the Thai men you have talked to believe are the “low end” of Thai society.
Essentially the idea you’re quoting is a form of racism that is based on classifying the people of Isaan as ‘inferior’ based largely on the regional history of SE Asia, the shade of their skin and the fact that their primary occupation is farming. These ideas were debunked in most places in the world early in the last century. I’m surprised that anyone would parade them publicly as a legitimate point of view in this age.
I might as well ask why some southern men insist on dating “ignorant niggers” in the United States instead of “decent white women”.
Do you think the ideas of the Thai men you hold out as your authority is any less ignorant or offensive?
August 26th, 2008 at 6:14 am
Bravo WW
October 6th, 2008 at 4:35 am
yes, dv there is a lot of prejudice and social structures in place in Thailand - like everywhere else really. People come here and think it is just the rich farangs and the poor Thais - believe me it isn’t - there are some seriousy seriously weatlthy Thais. I don’t remember you mentioning Issan though - but seems WW has provided that stereotype for us all anwyway. Yes, the bar girls tend to be from poorer backgrounds and have pretty much no education.Like the bar boys the come from Issan mainly. Many of the middle class Thai girls don’t even know they exist there is such a divide. What you’re probably seeing is a lot of Western men with girlfriends who look like bar girls - you do see some middle class girls with Western men but not as many and they move in different circles. They don’t hang out with their man at the ex-pat bars. Many higher class girls talk about wanting a farang man - they want to live in the US or Australia - not so much England - but they wouldn’t just go with a man because he was a farang. I too have noticed and I’m just being honest here that many of the Thai girls who are with the older Western men look like prostitutes - in the way they dress and yes, you can tell from their looks that they are from the poorer backgrounds. The reality is that most of these women are after the money - the genuine relationships if you like to call it that are really easy to spot - the women don’t act as desperate around the man - next time you see an older Western guy with a much younger Thai watch how bored she looks when he’s not looking. There is a call girl nature there even when they’re hitched sometimes.
Many of the Issan who are far better looking in my view than the paler Thais are really interested in farang women and although I wouldn’t class myself in any way racist I think you do have to be wary. There is such a difference in income, education and culture that all is not what it seems and you can get yourself into difficulties. Yes, the Thai men sleep with the bar girls as well but no, you wouldn’t get a hi-so Thai man marrying an Issan girl - highly unlikely - they are far more snobby than any farang when it comes to that sort of thing. But at the end of the day, many of these girls are lovely and it is not their fault they are not educated and come from such basic backgrounds. The Thai men from what I hear tend to have a few girls on the go at the same time. Thai women never ever say anything positive about Thai men. A lot of Thai women like the farang sense of humour and the women speak better english. The Thai men tend to grow up very very late.
Sally, you’re so right - I think it was me that mentioned the washing the feet thing - do you know I mentioned it to my ex - english guy and he just didn’t know what I was talking about - I have also found that if you show a farang guy any sort of kindness they instantly think you are too into them - I have found men have even been uncomfortable with things that I would do for a close girlfriend or family member - I’m glad you’ve met someone you can just relax with like that - I had it as well for years.
BB - oh dear - how many times - women enjoy pampering and looking after their man but yes, they do want it back in return - your comments were really revealing though - is money the only factor - you talk about someone putting more into a relationship - is money it then?? Perks are something you get at work. A relationship is about mutual trust and acceptance and understanding and passion and compassion - it isn’t a constant set menu - unlike the massage places - it is about giving and taking. If you have a loving partner then of course they are going to appreciate your hard work and the fact that you are a breadwinner but love isn’t actually about expectation and duty. As well as getting into the Thai women you want to get into the real cultural and philosophical reasons behind some of the behaviour you like about Asia. I don’t think anyone should kiss anyone’s ass in a relationship and I really feel for you if that is how you think about love and life. What a shame - really.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:58 am
First off my heroes include nelson mandela, mlk, ghandi and even some white people. more recently i was quite touched by mr obama winning the us presidency. finally the dream, the idea behind the inception of the USA has blossomed.
I asked a Thai male friend about the idea of living with a entertainment girl from pattaya. the thai male is also of “color” however completed university and if i recall maybe a masters also, and is hard working with a successful business.
the reply was that thai men do not find those girls attractive. I imagine that this applies to thai guys with some education. in actuality you rarely see thai men(any thai men) as patrons in entertainment venues frequented by westerners. my friend elaborated by saying thai men are weary of the stories the thai farang entertainment girls create aimed at gaining sympathy and money.
realistically a very high % of western males live in areas populated with entertainment venues, including an entire city.
maybe i am deaf, dumb and blind, but it doesn’t seem like many of those girls have much in the way of basic personal development, hobbies, playing a musical instrument, reading….. some of them are very nice, friendly, big smile, but the smile and friendliness is BUSINESS. the bottom line is financial. there does not seem to be an overwhelming preponderance of girls with some type of plan or goal. just live for today. there are tons of people from issan that are motivated, reliable, and hold jobs in other areas outside of the entertainment business. issan has universities.
am i racist if sure seems like a high % of those girls lack the degree of reliability to show up on time if show up at all at a mainstream job?
am i racist if by observation many of them cannot speak without yelling, are often rude.
the concept of societal drift seems to be at work.
==============================================================
Since you mention “inellectual(LOL) perspective”:
One thing to wonder about is why anyone would concern themselves with who the Thai men you have talked to believe are the “low end” of Thai society.
Essentially the idea you’re quoting is a form of racism that is based on classifying the people of Isaan as ‘inferior’ based largely on the regional history of SE Asia, the shade of their skin and the fact that their primary occupation is farming. These ideas were debunked in most places in the world early in the last century. I’m surprised that anyone would parade them publicly as a legitimate point of view in this age.
I might as well ask why some southern men insist on dating “ignorant niggers” in the United States instead of “decent white women”.
Do you think the ideas of the Thai men you hold out as your authority is any less ignorant or offensive?
November 20th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
DV,
While I can sympathize with your point it is indeed racist. It’s really hard to talk about Thais without making some generalizations so I can agree with some of what you say on a very general level and strongly disagree with other parts.
An educated Thai would never date or marry a Thai working girl because in Thai society it would be suicide. Bye bye promotion, your family would disown you, etc. That’s not to say that he might not have a regular stable of whores on the side or a mia noi but as is the Thai way, it’s not what you do, it’s what you do in public.
And, I think it’s a well known that many upper and middle class Thais see people from Isaan as being inferior. Their beliefs - as WW pointed out - are just as uneducated, racist, and bigoted as someone who thinks blacks are niggers.
So, your Thai friend’s view is not surprising. In fact, I would be surprised if he had said something different. But being Thai doesn’t make him right.
Now, you’ve specifically focused on the topic of “entertainment” girls. Well, dude, you’re talking about whores. Sorry, I hate to use such a demeaning term but I think we need to get it out in the open so we can really examine what your argument is. So then, are you saying that crack whores in Farangland are much more aspirational than Thai whores? Ahh yes, I remember that window prostitute in Amsterdam telling me about her musical training just before she sucked my cock. What an absurd argument.
And a lot of what you’re attributing to “those girls” actually applies to many Thais. Try scheduling an appointment with a Thai person and see if they show up on time. Perhaps the percentage is higher than for bar girls but it’s not a flaw exclusive to bar girls.
Likewise I think you’ll find it a general observation that Thais - regardless of level of education - lack what we in the west would term intellectual curiosity. Yes, there are some brilliant, educated Thai people out there but I challenge you to hang out in a business district in Bangkok and ask people how many books they’ve read in the last year that were not required reading as part of their job.
I’ve dated quite a few educated Thai women and only a small percent can even discuss Thai politics. I actually know the names of more Thai politicians than many of the Thai women I’ve dated. When I was in BKK last Dec during the elections I mentioned to one girl (who had a masters degree) that the bars were closed for the elections. She didn’t even know there were elections going on!!!
So again, you’re putting these negative attributes on only Thai whores when many are simply cultural issues shared by most Thais.
But what it then comes down to is are they even negative attributes? If I ever dated a farang woman who’s played an instrument I’m unaware of it. I’m sure some did but there wasn’t a violin in the house or a grand piano in the living room. They certainly weren’t serious in their study of it. How is that person better or worse than a Thai who’s never learned to play an instrument? Same same.
And while many Thais lack intellectual curiosity not all do. I have Thai friends who are very clued into Thai politics. They are well read and have traveled. They constantly quiz me on things going on in the US and Europe to get a farang perspective.
But even then, I actually find a certain level of admiration for someone happy living in the now. I won’t say that I don’t sometimes find it frustrating but they’re a lot happier than I am so maybe I’m the one doing it wrong
And it is simplicity that often draws me to them. You say “just live for today” but isn’t that what a lot of self-help books recommend as a path to happiness?
And you mention hobbies but I think you may be missing out on something. I think farang culture pushes hobbies as being a key focal point of your life where I see Thai women with hobbies but it’s less at the forefront. For instance, I have female Thai friends who draw, take language classes (for no business reason - just an interest in learning something new), cook like world class chefs, golf, scuba dive, play chess, etc. And that was just the first few people who popped into my head. Having a hobby doesn’t mean you have to have a bumper sticker on your car that says “I heart _____” I think western culture says that your hobby has to borderline on obsession for it to be a real hobby. You can’t just golf, you have to get the golf coffee mug, the stupid desktop paperweight, and constantly talk about how you wish you had more time for it. I just don’t think Thais get that serious about their hobbies. They have them; they’re just not fanatical about them like we are.
In terms of goals, again I think you may not be seeing the big picture here. Especially when it comes to Isaan girls they may have goals but they may be much more modest than you’re used to. If you’re some Isaan girl who’s parents have slaved away under the baking sun for 40 years harvesting rice your goal in life might be not to have to do that yourself. You goal might be to have a life where you don’t live harvest to harvest or paycheck to paycheck. In such a family oriented and traditional culture one of your goals might be to be a good wife and mother. Maybe like many of the original immigrants to the US it’s more important to give your children a better life than it is to pursue your own dreams.
In terms of bar girls . . . most have goals. Again, they are modest by western standards but most do have goals. I think the most frequent ones you hear is to make enough money to be able to buy some land and build a house back in their hometown. Doesn’t sound like much considering how inexpensive it is to buy and build in Isaan but like I said . . . from where she started this would be a major move up life’s ladder.
Now, getting back to the whores . . . yes, many are rude. Very rude. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen any start off that way. I’ve watched them become that way after years of working the go-gos but most are shy and quiet when they first start out. It’s the years of living your life in a smoke filled room, drinking every night, and having drunk farangs grabbing at your tits and ass all night that turns many of these girls into that rude, obnoxious fuck that you wish would leave you alone.
Can you expect anything else? As much as we all like to think of ourselves as good upstanding people try hanging out in Pattaya, Cowboy, Nana, or Patpong for any length of time. See what kinds of scumbags travel from all ends of the earth to come there.
I remember reading on Stickman’s site a user submission from a guy who wrote a guide on how to rip off bar girls. I mean this guy was stealing cash out of their purse while they showered, ditching them in restaurants after having sex without paying, and on and on. The guy sent these “tips” to Stickman because he thought other guys should be doing the same. The guy happened to be on the run from the law back in Canada for running an employment agency scam where he got girls to pay him to help them find work and then he just took their money and skipped town.
These are the kind of people these bar girls deal with every day. I can’t say I blame them when they become hardened. They’re dealing with some of the scum of the earth so their world view is going to get pretty distorted. Any girl who didn’t harden would get eaten up.
Or what about the girl who some guy strung along for a year while the entire time he had a wife and kids he had no intention leaving? How many times do you think you would allow yourself to get fucked over before you thought it was your turn to do the fucking over? They may be uneducated but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that guys are using you and you can either allow yourself to be used or you can strike back and use them and their desire to have sex with you to make a better life for yourself.
Or better yet, just the other night I was at a go-go on Cowboy and one of the customers got up and left without paying. His hostess got stuck for a 500 baht bill. Yeah, there’s a reason why she doesn’t see anything wrong with sticking you for a drink you didn’t order. In her mind it’s just making up for the times she got stiffed and had to come up with the cash out of her own pocket.
Don’t get me wrong though. I’m not suggesting that their behavior is acceptable. It’s that it’s predictable. I don’t think that the girl that suckers a bunch of guys into sending her money is a bad person. That’s just the reality of her world. And yes, I’ve actually known some of these gals well enough that they’ve shared with me how and why they do what they do.
And lastly, I only did a quick re-read of the comments in this thread but this article was about why farang guys like Thai women. It was not about why farang guys like Thai prostitutes. I’m not sure how you got onto the topic of prostitutes but that was not the topic I started off writing about.
November 20th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Well Billy BKK,
By the looks of your writing you are certainly impassioned by what you write, and well knowledgeable.
now if you personally are dating a mainstream girl you are among the apparent tiny minority of western guys living in thailand.
my initial comments relate to what is glaringly clear in bkk and in the “city” that the sex business built, starts with a “P” can you guess? and i believe what i have noted basically throughout Thailand to be more of the same.
as far as bar girl goals i can see your point, although they complain about all the reason why they never have money. sick relatives, etc etc etc. let me ask you this. those girls and generations of girls like them have their native language, property ownership and wide open business rights.
yet, bonafide poor uneducated immigrants from china arrive in thailand without speaking the language, and somehow manage to not only survive, but achieve considerable success and have you ever seen recent immigrant chinese girls at expat bars?
please do not counter with allegations of racism. what i have stated seems to be simple fact.
if i acknowledge that in this world there exists no shortage of “white trash” would you label me racist?
come on, do you think the vast majority of expats came to thailand to date mainstream girls???
would it surprise you to learn mainstream girls are quite conservative and can be sexually repressed, barring the ones that spent time abroad, etc. the bar girls don’t seem sexually sophisticated either. much of bar girl-customer relations seem more akin to animal husbandry.
sorry to say i have rarely seen a western guy with a thai girl that didn’t appear to be in the “entertainment” business. I’m not saying it does not exist, just well hidden.
you refer to prostitutes in other countries but it sure seems that the dimensions of prostitution in thailand are huge. it is an “industry”
so you don’t think a girl that suckers multiple guys into sending her money is a bad person? some would argue “criminality” but since she might have a nice smile when she says “hello handsome man” it is not so bad.
to a certain degree the girls become the environment they are in. when your friends are seasoned scammers it just might rub off on you
i say to each their own. the apparent overwhelming majority of “handsome sophisticated men” may be quite happy and kudos to them. it probably? beats being somewhere in europe or usa and dating women of similar status and appearance
November 22nd, 2008 at 3:12 pm
DV,
I’m sorry, but I have a serious problem with this:
would it surprise you to learn mainstream girls are quite conservative and can be sexually repressed, barring the ones that spent time abroad, etc. the bar girls don’t seem sexually sophisticated either.
The problem is that this is so ill informed that I have to believe that your overall knowledge on this subject is highly inaccurate.
What you wrote may have been true 20 or 30 years ago or it might apply to some very old fashioned girls of today but otherwise it’s bullshit. The same websites you read that on would also tell you that Thais don’t hold hands, kiss, or show any sort of public display of affection in public. I think sitting for 20 minutes in any of the big shopping centers would completely dispel that myth. And going out to a proper nightclub would not only kill but bury any notion that Thais don’t do public displays of affection. Granted, they’re still conservative by western standards and there are some girls who are still old fashioned but your average Thai girl in her 20’s or 30’s is more western than what you describe.
And in terms of sexually repressed . . . I’ve never asked a girl to come back to my place with me. It’s always been her suggestion. Sure she might try to be coy about it but no girl wants to seem like a slut. Thai or farang, they always want to have the “it just happened” excuse.
In terms of performance in bed; no complaints. Obviously some are going to be more experienced and/or enthusiastic than others but I’ve never had a girl starfish on me which is a compliment I cannot give to some bar girls. Some have been truly fantastic lovers and I rank them up there as some of my best experiences in bed.
I think the crux of our disagreement or different points of view is that you sound like your world-view of Thailand is shaped 100% by what you see (or have seen) in Pattaya. Within the microcosm of Pattaya some of the things you say hold true due to the fact that Pattaya has become the world-wide capital for sexpats and the women who are drawn to them. So doesn’t it seem silly to look at that microcosm and try to ask where all of the marriage-minded farangs are? Doesn’t it seem equally as futile to try to find the nice, mainstream Thai girl? Your average guy who wants to come and live in Thailand, make a decent salary, and meet a nice girl here isn’t going to live in Pattaya. Likewise, what kind of work is there for a girl in Pattaya other than working in the bars?
So sorry to sound dismissive but I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make. You seem to be bent on not seeming racist while making generalizations on topics you don’t seem to know much about.
Get your ass out of Pattaya and go meet some nice, mainstream girls and see if you have the same attitude. There are some really nice ladies out there if you’re willing to put in the time and effort to treat them nicely.
Billy
November 22nd, 2008 at 5:45 pm
You injected “Issan” into the discussion then labeled my statements as “racist” I then added some of my personal convictions about people as related to race. Now you say I am “bent on not seeming racist” So is my problem
1) I am a racist.
or
2) I am a racist obsessed with not seeming like one
3) Maybe not a racist
I only make a mention to Pattaya. Although you ignored it, I also said my observation throughout other areas (BKK including numerous neighborhoods away from Sukhumvit/Nana/Silom entertainment)One or twice I saw a wesertn guy with a girl that did not appear to be from the “entertainment venue” However, on numerous occasions I see western males with “bar girl looking” companionship at Central World, Siam Paragon, Emporium, MBK, Lat Prao Mall, and other upscale non western locales.
From your posts it seems you are in what seems to be the small minority or westerners that go out with mainstream girls.
Your reference to a night club where affection may be observed is not a public place. It is a few hours in a synthetic private environment with alcohol.
The % of thai couples that hold hands is significantly low, not that it matters. It certainly does not matter to me.
It’s always been her suggestion. Sure she might try to be coy about it but no girl wants to seem like a slut.
That statement seems to contradict itself. No girl wants to seem like a slut, but It’s always been her suggestion.
Would it surprise you if astonishingly my presence in Pattaya is rare, and I have gone out with several girls that include masters and doctorates in addition to plain old bachelor degrees?
Would it surprise you if discussing sexual performance/liaisons on the internet or personally with friends doesn’t “do it for me” nor does using what I consider unnecessary language ie: grabbing at your tits and ass all night that turns many of these girls into that rude, obnoxious fuck
November 22nd, 2008 at 7:51 pm
DV,
To be honest, I think I understand your point or objective less with each post. All I know is you have a tendency to make sweeping generalizations and start off a lot of sentences with the phrase “Is it racist . . .”
But let’s just look at what you have said.
Your first comment was quoting a Thai friend who told you how these low-end girls aren’t attractive to Thai men. Oh, and you made the point of putting LOL when referencing their intellectual qualities. Is that racist? Yes.
First, your Thai friend is racist. I know it sounds odd that a Thai could be racist against another Thai but it’s about as easy to understand as how light skinned blacks think dark skinned blacks are inferior. It doesn’t matter if you’re Thai or not, to think that people from Isaan are inferior is racist. And to quote him and agree with him is . . . also racist.
Then when WW called you on it you qualified it by saying he was referencing girls working in the entertainment industry which are about 99% Isaan girls so WW didn’t just throw Isaan into the conversation; you did whether you realize it or not. What both WW and I both picked up on based on what your Thai friend said in your first comment was that he was speaking specifically about Isaan people who are considered low class by many other Thais. That was how you introduced Isaan into the conversation whether you were aware of it or not.
You keep making this like it’s an issue of education but an educated Thai from Isaan is still from Isaan. Your educated Thai friend was probably not of Isaan origin which is why he’s racist against people from Isaan and said they are considered unattractive to Thai people. Again, is that racist? 100% yes!!!
So the best answer I can put together is that your friend is certainly a racist and if you believe what he’s told you then you are as well.
Everything else you’ve said has been pretty much nonsense. Be it the crap about all western/Thai relationships being bar girls or be it the 20 year old notion that Thais don’t hold hands in public and are “sexually repressed.”
I mean, just go onto a dating site like Thai Love Links and there are thousands of women registered on there. Hell, on a good evening there might be 800 or more online at any one time. I would say out of that a very small percentage have ever worked in the entertainment industry. Yet there they are, trying to meet a farang. And the guys are on there too. Guys looking to meet a nice mainstream girl.
And that’s just one site. There are tons of others. Tagged, Hi5, MySpace, Facebook, Match.com, Thailand Friends, etc, etc, etc. Or go to Thai Visa or Ajarn and talk to all the guys who are married to girls or have girlfriends who have never worked in the entertainment industry. The facts simply don’t support your conclusions.
As to your last item, I don’t care what does it for you. I write what I write and if you don’t like my style of writing or the language I use you have the option not to read it. Sorry, but the entire internet can’t be catered around what does it for you. Maybe you should stick with sites that share your racists views of Isaan women.
Billy
November 23rd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Billy,
Low end men or women of any skin color are (often? usually) not found desirable by men/women of ANY skin color that have greater personal/intellectual development.
I doubt someone with Barack Obama’s background would find much in common dating a woman(any skin color) that decided bypassing basic education and working in a business that tries to get YOUR assets to support her and family members that have learned a “free meal ticket” is the way to go.
I doubt an educated Thai of color would very much be interested in dating a white skin massage girl from the north either.
Let me add, that there are some “entertainment” girls that are very lovely, sweet, genuinely nice people, however, the reason they are in that business (money) is the bottom line, including the so called “freelancers”
This is not racism, this is reality.
If what you say is true (99% bar girls from Issan), why is there such a disproportionately high % from Issan when after all, there is poverty everywhere in Thailand?
Anyway, I have spent time in Issan and there are a great number of people working hard and diligently, studying, etc etc, and they have nothing to do with the scamming mentality that is pervasive in the entertainment industry.
Believe it or not at one point in my life I was a victim of racism.
What I discuss here is not about skin color or origin, its about mentality, lifestyle of some people and clearly not all.
If I applaud and respect and acknowledge the majority of people from Issan that are not scamming, but hard working honest respectable good hearted people but comment realistically on some “entertainment” girls that belong to a subset of population I am racist??????
Do you suggest my arguments albeit based in fact, should be dismissed as invalid, because they are “racist” ?(per your perception)
May I ask what is your racial background?
November 23rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
DV,
No, you may not ask what my race is because it has nothing to do with this conversation. I’m not the one labeling an entire ethnic group as lazy and unintelligent.
I really don’t understand why you feel that you can say any half-assed remark you want and then it’s my job to educate you on things you know nothing about.
Why are 99% of the girls from Isaan? Because only about 10% - 20% of the girls in the prostitution game are involved in Farang/Thai prostitution. The other 80% - 90% service Thais. And, as already been discussed, many Thais are racists and think that the dark brown skin of Isaan girls is grotesque. There is no market for Isaan girls in Thai brothels.
Isaan girls often see marrying a farang as the only way out of their current poverty cycle. They don’t get into prostitution because they want to be whores. They get into prostitution either because they are forced into it (which I’ll explain in a moment) or they are misguided into thinking that it’s a quick path to meeting a nice, rich farang who will marry them and save them.
Many girls end up forced into it by greedy parents or boyfriends/husbands who know it’s easy cash for them. Let’s say a Isaan girl goes to Bangkok to work in a factory or some other low-paying job. Perhaps her parent’s gambling problems or her husband’s refusal to get a job and drinking problems put her in a position where those around her are expecting more money than her job will allow. Being uneducated and seen as on the bottom rung of the societal ladder her only option is to work in the farang bars (Thai brothels would never accept her).
Dude, you have no fucking clue what you’re talking about. You started off making racist and uneducated comments and then have slowly attempted to try to dig yourself out of that hole by downplaying what you intended to say. You cannot write “intellect (LOL)” and then try to say you were talking about a lifestyle. Intelligence is something you are born with or not. So commenting that an entire group of people are not intelligent is racist. Do you need a dictionary to help you define what racism is?
If you wanted to talk ONLY about girls working in the entertainment industry you should have said so. You didn’t.
I can agree that girls working in the entertainment industry share many common personality traits. That would be because they’re a self-selecting group. They made choices that brought them to where they are. I can almost tell a bar girl her own life story based on the first few words that come out of her mouth because they all got to where they are through a similar process.
But that is merely once facet of Isaan people. What about all of the ones who do end up attending university hoping for a better life? What about the ones who stay in the dead-end, low paying jobs because they are happier doing that than going for the quick cash in the farang prostitution option? What about the ones who find a nice Isaan Thai man to marry and have a relatively happy life together?
Here’s a hint for you; if you don’t like being called a racist don’t make racist comments. The internet is already full-up on ignorant jerkoffs who come to Thailand and bang a bunch of hookers and think they know what Thailand and Thai people are about.
Billy
November 23rd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Billy,
Thank you for your most eloquent and intellectually enlightening words.
Something I don’t think you were ever a member of The Harvard Law debating team, or any other for that matter.
Should I acquire a fascination for bar girls I will seek out your wisdom most venerable professor.
November 25th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
I never promised eloquent or intellectually enlightening words.