A Long Return To Thailand – Part 2 is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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The flight from Heathrow with Qantas had been uneventful. I had sat next to an Aussie backpacker who had spent most of the 11 hour flight telling me about a pop festival he had been to regardless of the fact I was pretending to be asleep. Steve had been good to his word and I was now officially a website builder. My plan was to spend a month in various locations around Thailand interspersed with visa runs and a trip or two back to the UK during the year I intended to spend in Thailand. The locations I had chosen were Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Chiang Mai, Koh Samui and Hua Hin although I was prepared for changes and to be flexible.

The trip from Don Mueang airport to Pattaya had taken just about two hours as we pulled up outside the Dynasty Inn on Soi 13 in Pattaya. I had seen the hotel on the internet, it was reasonably priced, was newly built and from the pictures I had seen it looked to be quite plush. I was paying about £20 per night but intended to stay only a few nights before I moved to somewhere a little cheaper after having a look around.

If you choose wisely in Thailand it’s possible to find a hotel that would probably cost 3 or 4 times as much in the UK. Conversely it’s also possible to find a hotel in Thailand that is priced 3 or 4 times more than you would find in the UK. It’s always a combination of good research and good luck.

I checked into my hotel and went to my room. It was now mid-morning and I was a little tired after the flight but was keen to get out and about and see what Pattaya had to offer. I was also mindful of the fact I had to discipline myself to at least 4 or 5 hours per day in order to do the work that would sustain me financially during my stay. I jumped into the shower after unpacking my bags and putting the clothes I was wearing into a plastic bag ready to take to the laundry. The warm shower was refreshing and also relaxed me after my long journey. I luxuriated as the water cascaded over me and I thought of the events leading to where I was now. I still had some doubts over whether I was doing the right thing but I had chosen to put them at the back of my mind and enjoy what I had.

After my shower I lay on the bed and before I knew it my watch was telling me it was four o’clock in the afternoon. I must have been more tired than I realised and I felt a little cheated that I had fallen asleep. This was a recurring theme during my time in Thailand where I found myself feeling out of sorts if I had missed something, as though I had to live every single moment.

I showered again, put on a t-shirt, some shorts, a pair of sandals, left my room and entered the lift on my way out. As I entered the lift I noticed another occupant, a girl wearing a pair of denim shorts, a pink t-shirt, a baseball cap and a pair of training shoes. I guessed she was about 23 years old, her hair was still slightly damp which gave the impression she had recently showered. I smiled at her as I entered the lift and she smiled back. I pressed the button marked “0” and we stood silently and slightly awkwardly as one tends to do in a lift. A few seconds later the ding of the lift bell indicated we had reached our destination as I stood back slightly inviting my lift companion to exit first. We both walked through the foyer and I dropped my room key off at reception. I noticed the girl from the lift also stopped at the reception desk in order to collect what I presumed was her ID card. As I stepped outside the hotel I made the transition from air conditioned coolness to the heat that was Pattaya. It felt like I was being stroked gently by a hairdryer such was the heat of the day.

I stood on the steps of the hotel surveying what was before me. To my right was Second Road and further down the soi to my left I could see the sea and just across the road was a bar. I was feeling a little hungry and so decided to look for something to eat. I had no real plans about what to do after eating apart from walking around and familiarising myself with my surroundings. A little further down the soi towards the sea I spotted a wheelbarrow stall being pushed by an elderly lady wearing a huge smile and a Mexican style sombrero even bigger than her smile. As I approached her I noticed she was selling different types of fruit. I looked at her fruit display as she stopped enabling me to get a closer look. Such was the heat of the day I suspect she was rather grateful she had an excuse to put her barrow down for a while. I recognised the melon, pineapple and sliced bananas but the other fruit I hadn’t seen before, some orange coloured fruit, some small red berries, some white fruit with black specks and some round white fruit. I asked the lady for some of each and she filled a couple of bags with a selection of her wares. She handed them to me still smiling and held up four fingers indicating 40 baht for the lot. I gave her a 50 baht note and told her to keep the change, her smile grew even wider as she bowed slightly and resumed pushing her wheelbarrow. A pound for two huge bags of fruit left me feeling very happy. I continued walking down the soi towards the sea and Beach Road munching on my purchase and enjoying the new flavours of fruit I had never seen before. As I approached the corner of the soi and Beach Road I spotted the same girl who had been in the hotel lift just minutes before. She was standing at a som tam stall chatting to a lady who was pounding out the som tam. As I walked past she saw me, smiled and said, “sawasdee khrup”. I smiled back and replied “sawasdee khrup”. Her hair had dried quickly in the heat and I noticed that it was slightly permed with some light brown highlights. Her eyes were bright and playful, her skin looked to be soft and smooth but most of all I noticed her perfectly rounded bottom and breasts. She sure was a very attractive young lady. I held out a bag of my fruit and asked her if she would like some, she smiled and took some, not taking her eyes off me for a moment as if assessing me. She asked,

“Where you from?”

I recognised this interrogation technique from my time in Bangkok a few months earlier, I was familiar with it and it felt somewhat reassuring.

“I’m from England, where are you from?”

“I Udon”

I knew Udon Thani was a city in a northern region of Thailand called Issan where many of the working girls came from so I replied,

“Udon Thani?”

She laughed and said something in Thai to the lady who was still pounding away at the som tam.

“What your name?” she asked me and I told her my name was Gerry from England. She said her name was Jeab. So that was it, Gerry from England and Jeab from Udon Thani. As happens thousands of times a day in Thailand, two total strangers from opposite sides of the world meeting for the first time with one inevitable outcome.

Jeab spoke reasonably good English and we chatted for a while as she waited for her som tam to be finished. The lady making the som tam finished pounding away and shovelled the contents of the pot into a polystyrene tray and handed it to Jeab who handed the lady a few coins. A thought crossed my mind as to how som tam was transported before polystyrene was invented but the thought quickly dissipated as I caught a glimpse of Jeab’s breasts under her pink t-shirt.

We walked slowly north along Beach Road towards a place to sit down as we chatted about nothing at all in particular, Jeab asking me how long I was to be in Pattaya for and me asking questions but not really listening to the answers. We found somewhere to sit and Jeab opened her polystyrene box of rich bright red and green colours which looked delicious but smelt dreadful. As I continued munching my fruit she tucked into her dinner sitting cross-legged on a wall overlooking the beach and sea. The sun was getting lower in the sky and I saw jetski’s, parachutes and speedboats weaving their way around the bay, it was a scene of great activity, of people having fun, I was living in a dream.

Jeab told me she had been working in Pattaya for three months. She had a baby in Udon Thani and sent money home to her mother who was looking after her baby. Her husband had gone off with another girl and her father had died when she was young. This had me feeling sorry for Jeab and I wanted to hug her but her smile told me she was happy with her life and I don’t think my western perception of her life would have gone down very well with her. She finished her som tam and then started on what was left of my fruit, boy could she shift some tucker. The fruit finished I suggested we go for a drink along the road. I was also craving one of the lollipop chickens I had seen so many times in Bangkok. We crossed the road from the beach side to the side where the hundreds of bars, shopping malls, restaurants and bar complexes are to find a place to have a drink. After some 20 minutes walking past what seemed like hundreds of places we came upon a bar with a lollipop chicken stall outside. The bar was playing music in the early evening and seemed quite lively. Jeab offered to barbecue my chicken outside for me while I ordered the drinks. I handed her a 100 baht note as I entered the bar. Jeab wanted a nam pau which is bottled water and I got a Heineken. As I sat down I spotted Jeab turning my chicken on the barbecue coals. She really was an attractive lady, she was not now wearing her baseball cap and her hair shone under the rapidly descending sun. She was quite tall for a Thai, maybe 5’ 6”, her legs were well-proportioned, her bottom was well rounded and her breasts were firm and medium sized. Even though she had told me she had a baby it didn’t seem to have taken a toll on her physique. I was feeling quite pleased with myself.

Jeab returned with a big handful of chicken for both me and her and handed me a few coins change which I put in my pocket. She also produced a small pot of chilli into which we dipped the chicken. As I looked out over Pattaya bay eating my chicken, sipping my beer and chatting to Jeab I was in a good place.

We left the bar and walked slowly backed towards the hotel. We hadn’t discussed what would happen next, I guessed we both just knew. Jeab was good company, she made me laugh and I loved the way she tried really hard to pronounce English words and in some cases just couldn’t quite get them right. She said “pomplim” instead of problem which I thought was really cute and when I asked her about it she tried really hard to say “problem” while furrowing her brow, slowly and deliberately trying to say it the same as me but to no avail. We both laughed as she tried. The carefree way Thai women approach life is a total contrast to the way I find western women approach life. Western women take themselves so seriously and seem to have lost the fun gene from their DNA. I hope this gene is firmly implanted in the Thai DNA for a long time to come.

We arrived back at the hotel and approached the reception desk to collect my key and Jeab produced her ID card to hand over to the receptionist. As we walked towards the lift I noticed a guy to my left who was also heading towards the lift. He was an elderly chap wearing beige shorts, a green striped polo shirt, white socks and sandals and a baseball cap indicating he was a follower of the Yankees. He was also smiling at Jeab. I looked at Jeab who had adopted a somewhat confused look as she glanced at both me and the elderly chap. She said nothing as we waited for the lift doors to open and we all entered the lift together. In the lift I could see Jeab glancing at the gentleman and then glancing at me and green striped polo shirt seemed to be smirking to himself. I glanced in the lift mirror to see if anything had inadvertently stuck to my head or if I had “Idiot” tattooed on my forehead, neither was true. As the lift neared my floor I stepped forward as did Jeab as we waited for the doors to open and as we departed the lift a voice from behind us said, “Goodnight Jeab”. I turned round to see the doors of the lift closing. I looked at Jeab who had the look of somebody who had just seen a ghost. I asked her if she was ok as the penny dropped. I smiled as it hit me. I had first met Jeab in the lift a couple of hours earlier. I had guessed she had just been with a customer as her hair was wet and she had collected her ID card from the hotel reception on her way out. My money was on green striped polo shirt being that customer and coincidentally we had met him in the lift. I didn’t relay my thoughts to Jeab but smiled to myself at the coincidences that life throws up and also at the fact Jeab was going to have a very profitable day.

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Why I will never date a Thai guy ever again is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

Thank you for reading Bangkok Diaries. If you have a post or a story you would like to share please send us your submissions.

Looking to meet someone in Thailand? ThailandFriends is the premier English-Language Social Network of Thailand. TF offers all members a unique online experience (dating or otherwise) complete with access to dating and social networking functions such as chat rooms, private messaging, forums, journals, partys & events and whole range of services to help you meet the most compatible Thai singles.

Before I begin..

This is based on my experiences and those of some of my friends. This is by no means the definitive guide to Thai men and I am not so ignorant that I don’t recognise that there are good and bad men and women in all cultures. I know, as I’ve dated my fair share of the bad western ones! So I’m hoping many western women have had wonderful relationships with Thai men and have not experienced any of the issues commonly found in Western/Thai unions that I am about to discuss. I haven’t any of these women in my 2 years here, but I live in hope!

So this is why I personally wouldn’t I date a Thai man again! Take it as you will.
I’d watched so many friends get burnt before by Thai guys, I’d listened to their stories and never thought I’d leave myself open to such madness. But I did. They are very good at hiding their crazy ways.

Fake
The most fake of all fakers I have ever known was my Thai man. I’d known him for 4 years on and off as a friend and he seemed like such a sweet, kind, thoughtful man with the biggest smile I’d ever seen and a good understanding of western culture. Truth was that he knew just enough about western culture to exploit it. If you think you’ve found the rare Thai guy that seems to have a western sense about relationships and how to treat a woman, do your homework and make absolutely sure he’s for real or you may get burned. Like I did! And remember I knew the guy for 4 years previously! Goes to show you never really know people.
First off… meeting a Thai guy in a bar is a huge big no no.. This just shows that he most likely has a drinking problem (which is rather common and extremely hard to deal with) and also that he has learnt enough English to try to grab himself a trophy farang to show off to his mates. In a drunken stuper my Thai guy told me that this is exactly what it was about. Learn a bit of English and sweet talk the western girls. Kind of a sport they like to play, maybe perhaps because gambling is illegal here.
They will tell you romantic comedies are a favourite of theirs and learn how to romance you by studying the cheesy movies girls just love! How cheesy, but we fall for it, god dam Hollywood.

I was bombarded with sweet messages in broken English, fruit and flowers magically appeared on my doorstep, he’d giggle like a school girl around me and watched my every move in a group situation making me feel like the only one in the room. They sure know how to stir up some chemistry and they also know how to spot the weak girls that have their guard down. Perhaps like me their previous western relationship hadn’t worked out (I’d been cheated on) and it leaves you feeling a little insecure and venerable to attack.
Don’t be that weak girl.  You’re like a sitting duck.
Once operation romance is complete and they get into your panties, things make a dramatic change.  It took about 1 month before he was discussing the possibility of a ring!! The only ring I could think of was that of alarm bells.
Suddenly they want to OWN YOU.
Now this does not usually come to light until a bit later in your Thai relationship. It seems that at the beginning of most relationships you spend as much time as possible together.
It’s when you’ve grown tired of the language barrier and need some mother tongue chat (usually when you start speaking Tinglish and missing out words) that the true Thai nature explodes like dynamite and if you are not careful you could be battered by the blast.

Jealousy
Most Thai’s (in my opinion) suffer from extreme jealousy. Not just the men but women also. Its pretty hard to build a friendship with Thai girls with boyfriends because they are insecure and highly suspicious of you. They will send you “back off” vibes and then because you don’t want to keep trying to be friends with someone that thinks badly of you, they see your lack of friendliness as cementing their suspicion which makes them think they were right and you really were trying to steal their man. You really can’t win.

In my experience with my jealous Thai guy, if I so much as smiled near another man I would spend hours trying to explain something I didn’t even remember doing. I was given the cold shoulder for days after he would sting me with some hurtful, spiteful comment but stubbornly refuse to tell me what was wrong.  Understandably this gets frustrating. One time I was ignored because I was asked directions by a western male  backpacker. Another time I got an automated sales call in Thai and hung up just as he walked into the room. He was convinced it was my ex even after I showed him the phone and I received another cold shoulder day.
Jealous Thai men and friendly western backpacker women … DO NOT MIX
Which brings me to a previous point.

The language barrier.
Now it’s hard enough communicating with someone from your home town in a relationship, so having a boyfriend who’s English is limited creates chaos.

Oh it seems so cute at first, but then the most innocent of conversations turns into a constant battle to be understood properly.  This takes a phenomenal amount of patience, understanding and trust. 3 things in my experience many men (of all cultures) don’t have.
One very fine example is the word “funny”. Now we (native English speakers) all know that funny has more then one meaning depending on the context right. If I say “Its funny that in Thailand the Thai first name has no link at all to their nick name”.
I meant that it is strange to me being a westerner as mostly our nicknames are an abbreviation of our real name.
A Thai will hear this as “the way Thai people make up nick names is a joke!”
This happened to me and I was again brutally ignored, and received spiteful, hurtful comments. I had no idea what I had done that so deeply offended and he refused to give me any clues.
2 days of this and I finally find out what the matter was and laughing (as its so silly really) I went on to explain that I would never intentionally laugh at anyone’s name and went on to further explain that “funny” can mean strange/weird or that its something that makes you laugh. You know funny ha ha and funny strange.
4 Days later after total torture and repeating the same thing over and over, I can’t take anymore. I tell him that clearly he thinks I’m a rude nasty western b**ch and maybe it’s best we go our separate ways.  Only then, when the fear of loosing you and loosing face come into play, only then do they give in. So along with the language barrier came the stubbornness to see something for what it is and the reluctance to listen. Instead choosing the more destructive path of thinking he knew everything (he said this a lot) making things up himself and rolling with some wild story using it as an excuse to be purposefully rude, spiteful and hurtful. He could have just asked and discussed like adults. No chance. He loved the drama too much and wouldn’t back down as this means loosing face.
Common sense , stubbornness and loosing face

I forget sometimes that what westerners see as common knowledge might not have yet reached the masses.

A good example is nutrition. Kids are taught this in school back home. We know its bad but exercise free will as to whether we want to eat it or not.

I once made the mistake of exercising my free will, not to be force fed his Granma’s home made, crispy, deep fried, pig fat. He became instantly angry saying that he basically lived off them as a child and he was fine. (Never mind his weight problem) I explained that test’s have shown that deep fried anything is bad for your heart and cholesterol. He wasn’t interested in my explanation and I quickly understood the total lack of nutritional knowledge in Thailand and that I was at risk of making him feel defensive and dumb. I was right and his anger and ego made him see it as a direct attack on his ole Gran. I did try to explain that this was unknown years ago so his Gran would have had no idea. But alas, it was too late. I’d rolled on those egg shells again! Another 2 days of spiteful and rude behaviour for no real reason.

His fear of loosing face really took the fun element out of the relationship. You have to be on your best behaviour and be very careful what you say in case they misunderstand. Should you slip up in front of someone and your man looses face, you have just crushed the persona they worked so hard to create for themselves. Anyone even jokingly making fun of them is on their poo list. Loosing face is something I really struggle to understand. Why pretend to be something your not and then go nuts when someone calls you on it?

Which brings me to my next point…

Hypocrisy.

My Thai guy was such huge great big hypocrite. And he didn’t seem to understand what it means or how unfair and misleading this feels.

Thai’s like their chilli. I am western so 20 chilli’s is about 18 too many for me. But my guy refused to change his chilli addiction and then became deeply offended when I couldn’t eat the food he made. Saying that he won’t bother anymore, that I should cook my own things, how ungrateful I am and that I should just eat what I’m given. Then when I cook a roast dinner, pasta or other yummy western dish, he lets it go cold while he fries a damn egg to put on it. Then declares how horrid it is pulling a face and going off to cook his own dish.  This was highly annoying.

Hypocritically impatient

Now most men know that girls take longer to get ready then guys. Well in my case I could be ready in 5 minutes although that never seemed quick enough. (they are extremely impatient) So while I’m being impatiently rushed (even though he said we were leaving in 15 minutes) I panic, forget things and end up taking longer and feeling a little stressed out by the time we leave ready for a long silent bike ride to town.
Now I am an incredibly patient person. I wait around for as long as he needs to talk to his army of Thai friends, get himself sorted, or most annoyingly when they leave you somewhere while they “pop off for a minute” for over an hour to “sort some things out” (they will never tell you what) while you are expected to sit there smiling at their Grandfather who speaks not a word of English and can’t hear you even if you did happen to speak fluent Thai. Yes this happened to me.

But if I take 1 minute too long logging off of the internet I get the “you need to think about me and my time and what I need to do” lecture. Yeah I can think of over 1000 things I could have done rather then feel awkward around Grandpa while your off doing Buddha knows what.
But if you were to do the same, all hell breaks loose. The lack of anger control is terrifying to say the least. Clearly the meditation he was taught when he was 14 when he spent 3 compulsory months at the temple, really didn’t help him.  And this terrifying temper mixed with alcohol? Well this is something all cultures share. But my Thai man hid his true self behind his smile and religion. Just because he studied the teachings of Buddha didn’t mean he practiced it. In fact the most he would do is give an offering to Buddha and consider his sins forgiven. Much like the Catholics and confession. Like western culture he knew enough about Buddhism to exploit it.

He was very much the “do as I say, not as I do” variety.  We already mentioned the jealousy but that mixed with hypocrisy is baffling. He would accuse me of taking a shine to every man out there, while he would drive around shouting “hey sexy” to a friend of a friends girlfriend” and happily shagging half the town safe in the knowledge that they have you tucked away at home, far away from the men like them.

Cheating

Most Thai men cheat. It’s just the way things are here and you’d best be prepared for it. Ask any Thai girl. They don’t seem to be able to help it, maybe they see it as their right as a man. This is something I have seen time and time again much to the sorrow of my poor Farang friends who dish out all their backpacking money, only to end up going home with their tail between their legs wondering why he didn’t love them when they get caught out with some other unsuspecting backpacker. But you have to admire their acting and lying skills.  Most Farang never find out till it’s too late.
So, you’re at home while they are out and when you want some freedom it can turn into a battle. “Where are you going?, when will you be back?, who are you going out with?”

Controlling

Wow my guy needed to control a woman and he didn’t seem to know the meaning of the word trust.  Word of warning! It’s the ones that can’t trust and who get jealous that are like that because they can’t trust themselves. This applies to all cultures.

But you are not allowed to ask any questions at all when they go out. Women can’t control men in man world. Why they think they can control a western free spirited woman is anybodies guess. Most of the controlling mothers we are now half a world away from can vouch for that. Try to control most western women and you are left controlling your frustration when they leave you.

It can get so bad that they may even start to try to dress you and style your hair. Now I have a deep respect for other cultures and at my age I don’t prance around in mini skirts and boob tubes. So you can imagine my surprise when we go to the market and I have unintentionally employed a personal shopper who hasn’t the foggiest idea what I like.
Annoying.  I began to feel like a little dolly being dressed up and shown off to his friends.

Whenever I tried to say anything I was told I talked too much!

Thai men still to a degree view women as inferior, no matter how much they make you feel like a goddess in the early stages when they are trying to get into your panties. This is why we struggle to mix well with them. I mean there was no bra burning going on over here.  Western ideas on equality in relationships are slowly creeping in but the men appear to still fight it. We’ve come a long way in the western world but Thailand, beautiful as it may be, still has it’s darker side if you decide to sample what the men of this country have to offer.

After all, was it not Buddha himself that said that women can only hope to be reincarnated as a man because only men can be enlightened? Says a lot doesn’t it!

Final word

My experience ended with me fleeing like a fugitive amid death threats when I refused to return to such madness. I vowed never to return to a place that I loved, as I wasn’t about to find out if the death threats were empty or not. Unsurprisingly Thai guys have lost all appeal to me.

I was still being harassed and receiving threats daily by email (his only way to get in touch) months later and I was forced to change my email address and loose contact with good friends for fear that he will track me down somehow. Even though I seemed to annoy him and make him crazy jealous, he strangely thinks he loves me and we have to be together forever! Very fatal attraction and I seriously feel he would benefit from a stay in a mental hospital. Of course I understand that this should be a rare story and that maybe I was just unlucky, but when I moved into my new neighbourhood and shared my story I discovered my little hiding place had been a safe house for many other western girls fleeing their crazy Thai ex’s.

So apart from the misunderstandings, the hypocrisy, the drunkenness, the cheating, the spitefulness, the death threats and the controlling side of my Thai man. I can highly recommend them.

But this one was way too spicy for me.

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Dating Thai Men: A Personal Experience – Ms. Modern meets Mr. Ancient is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

Thank you for reading Bangkok Diaries. If you have a post or a story you would like to share please send us your submissions.

Looking to meet someone in Thailand? ThailandFriends is the premier English-Language Social Network of Thailand. TF offers all members a unique online experience (dating or otherwise) complete with access to dating and social networking functions such as chat rooms, private messaging, forums, journals, partys & events and whole range of services to help you meet the most compatible Thai singles.

Part of being in a new culture is to experience everything that the place can possibly teach me. One of my curiosities was Thai Men. When in Thailand, you hear frequent comments just how bad Thai men’s behavior is. Besides seeing congregate to drink whiskey together at 3pm in the afternoon, I wondered how bad of a species could they really be? Whenever I look, they are always smiling and excessively helpful.

So the curiosity of their never experienced character and their exoticism allured me to attempt to actually date them. Here in the middle of Issan, Surin to be exact, I was surrounded by flawless dark skinned friendly Thai men with a permanent gigantic smile stuck on their face. Nowhere in sight was a white man who was single. So I couldn’t help but be attract to them. But were they attracted to me?

I didn’t remember being ugly in America, in fact I consider myself visually appealing after I shower. After a few months, I realized its not in their Thai nature to visually check me out. Never do their eyes fall below your neck. Although it leads you to feel invisible, I sometimes slightly wish this was adopted by some Western Men.

Although you can never generalize men based on one experience from other stories I hear that this is how dating is usually approached. I am not referring to the Westernized Chinese-Thai Bangkok boy but rather the rural Isaan son of a father type. The one who is the least exposed to any form of Western dating, besides a few scenes from the latest American action movie dubbed in Thai.

The Thai way is very subtle. It starts off like a small rolling ball not in a hurry to get anywhere, sort of like a Thai buffalo. They want to court. It’s what they know. That is the polite thing to do. It is polite to turn you down when you invite them back to your room after a night of drinking. It’s almost sacred and very rare form of behavior in the west, but at the same time utterly frustrating to the point of feeling rejected. Their lack of aggressiveness I mistook for being uninterested.

When I met Go, I didn’s even realize that I met him. I would often see him when I went to fill up gas on my motorbike; he worked at the same place. It started off just as casual conversation. As my Thai started to improve, so did the length of our conversations. He was the first Thai guy that showed interest in me. Eventually after about two months of me frequenting the gas station, he asked me to go eat noodles with him. I knew that maybe this could mean something. After a few dates, a double date, and a meeting at the local pub as a group date, he still did not even hold my hand. I gave up, thinking maybe he is just not interested in me. Usually I was able to detect this, but at this time in this unfamiliar place, I was not certain what this type of behavior translated to. It drove me crazy for about a month. Beyond frustrated, I phoned an American male friend back at home for some insight. He asked me if I had ever seen “Hidden Tiger Crouching Dragon.” I said “No, why ?” My friend replies, “Well Sarah, the female is supposed to be the one to show interest in the man in Asian culture. You can’t be afraid to make a move.” My pride suddenly stood up and said NO this is not how I have ever done it. I am not the hunter, I am the prey pretending to run from you.

I swallowed my pride and decided to run after him like the tiger. I called him more and I questioned him similar to the style of some of the stalkish men that I have dated. After all, he was a really shy Thai guy and I was probably somewhat alien like to him. After 5 months total and one month of the not communicating, he finally held my hand, after I grabbed his, and then he finally came to my room, after turning me down several times before that. After consulting with a Thai female, she said it is a very ancient culture and this was his way to show his politeness and that he liked me. I had to revert back to a 7th grade dating mind frame and wow there is something so innocent about that.

Overall, Thai men are more polite. They will not make you carry anything and they will act like a man, and you will act like a female. The roles are very clear. He doesn’t like you wearing clothes that are too revealing. Sometimes he may drink and gamble with his friends but he will always laugh and make you laugh, conflict scares him. Although the language barriers and cultural differences can be vast, Thai men are worth exploring ladies if you are in no rush. Sit back, enjoy and observe the ancient style of dating still alive today.

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Hindu Temple in Bangkok: Sri Maha Mariamman Temple is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

Thank you for reading Bangkok Diaries. If you have a post or a story you would like to share please send us your submissions.

Looking to meet someone in Thailand? ThailandFriends is the premier English-Language Social Network of Thailand. TF offers all members a unique online experience (dating or otherwise) complete with access to dating and social networking functions such as chat rooms, private messaging, forums, journals, partys & events and whole range of services to help you meet the most compatible Thai singles.

Sri Maha Mariamman Temple is one of the two most revered temples by Indians and Thai Indians who live in Bangkok.

The temple is located on Silom Road on the corner of Thanon Pan (opposite Silom Soi 20). It is anly a 15 minutes walk from the Chong Nongsi BTS Skytrain station.

Read a full presentation of  Sri Maha Mariamman Temple here.

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Thai Women and Money is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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Having dated my fair share of Thai women over the years one common trait seen in many of them is an inability to exercise financial discipline. No doubt there are many Thai women who are responsible with money but most seem to take the attitude that Buddha will provide and see no reason to put forth any effort to secure their own financial security.

I was once told by a middle-age, university educated, woman, “What good can my money do me if I’m dead? If I don’t spend it now I might not get the chance.” Sadly, this is exactly how many Thai people from every financial strata view money.

This isn’t about your latest and greatest mobile phone addicted bar girl. These women can be educated, poor, middle-class, or wealthy. It’s just a mindset about money that really damages the country as a whole.

Of course, the hardest hit are those who cannot afford to spend the money. Many of these girls don’t have two baht to rub together but the second they get any money they spend it. Not on essentials but, more often than not, on things they don’t even need.

Not all Thai women are like this. I’ll admit that. But too many are. For a country where most people are living one step above the poverty level the inability to save even a modest amount is somewhat troubling.

In the West we call it Ghetto Rich. Actually, there a more offensive and racist term but let’s just go with Ghetto Rich for the sake of keeping things out of the racist category.

The Urban Dictionary gives several different definitions for both Ghetto Rich and the more derogatory form.

Primarily invested in depreciating assets i.e. cars, clothes, jewelry.

Spending your money unwisely on things you dont need that wont last you that long.

Spending all the money you have as fast as possible just because you have it.

The reason it has the name Ghetto Rich is because that’s exactly where that kind of attitude with money will keep you, in the ghetto. And in Thailand, the culture is such that everyone is worried about “saving face” or “gaining face” which essentially means showing off wealth.

I can’t even count the number of Thai women I’ve known that have been thrown a lucky curve in life and watched them waste it. For example, one girl I met told me about how her ex-boyfriend used to give her 100,000 baht per month to live on. This is a girl who came off a farm in Isaan and was working as a waitress in a restaurant making 7,000 or 8,000 baht per month before she met the guy. She dated him for nearly three years and despite receiving 3.6 million baht during that time period, she said that when they broke up she had 500 baht in her bank account. Surely, she bought a house or a car, right? Nope. She blew every single baht on taking her friends out to hi-so restaurants, partying, and “helping” all of her less fortunate friends.

A girl who I dated previously dated a guy who was making about 300,000 baht per month salary here in Thailand. He gave her her own ATM card to his account and his credit card. She dated him for about four years and at the end of the relationship she had 200 baht in cash and a room stuffed to capacity with clothes and shoes.

I wish I could say these are isolated incidents but they’re only isolated in the sense of the figures involved. The mindset that all money has to be spent and that it should be spent in a way that lets others know you have wealth is one of the core problems facing Thailand because no matter how much money you pump into the country it will remain a poor country as long as the money leaves people’s hands as fast as it comes in.

What compounds the problem is that in many cases the girl winds up with an entourage of leeches. The girl I described above had a cousin who learned that sticking her hand out was easier than getting a job. Here’s this 20 year old cousin living in Bangkok, perpetually unemployed, and asking the girl I was dating to “help” her with the rent or food or whatever. Every morning I would hear the SMS ringtone and the girl I was seeing would read it and show me yet another request for some “help.”

I know many people are thinking that I was simply being set up but I didn’t give her money to give to her cousin. I told her that I wouldn’t because if she didn’t have any money to give then her cousin might finally go out and get a job. As long as her cousin could get by without working she would. It was only when the money was cut off 100% that she would do something for herself.

And that’s exactly what happened. After a few months of not getting any money she left Bangkok and went to give live with her parents who were slightly annoyed that the girl I was dating didn’t do more to help.

She also attracted other leeches during her rich years. She had a small army of girls who kissed her ass and let her be the leader of their gang (Thais like to call groups of friends, their gang) as long as she was footing the bill at nightclubs, helping them pay the rent, taking them out to fancy restaurants, etc. When the money quit coming in her friends all dumped her and only came back sniffing around when we started going out thinking the money train was back. When they found out it wasn’t they were gone.

Many foreigners think that they’re being scammed when in reality they’re just experiencing Thai attitudes towards wealth. They can’t imagine having millions and millions of baht and not throwing it around to let others know how rich they are. And if they have a “rich” (rich is always relative in Thailand) boyfriend all of their friends and family expect some crumbs to fall off of the table. If there are no crumbs for them then she loses face.

My current girlfriend used to have the same problem. She was a shopaholic. We’re talking complete loss of sanity in any sort of shopping environment. Literally, it was like she was on a drug. She would forget I was even with her. In fact, she told me she left her friends at the mall once and forgot about them until she was in the taxi on her way home with her big shopping score. She had to call them from the taxi when the buzz wore off and apologize.

After she agreed that she couldn’t live like that anymore, one of the first things I did was put her on a budget. Normally, she got paid on the 1st and was broke by the 12th. When we first started going out, once she went broke she would ask me for small amounts of money here and there for food or to put money on her mobile. But that grew old for me fast so I started making her turn over her pay to me on the first and I would dole it out to her. She wasn’t happy about that one bit and I listened to many pleas about “needing” a new pair of shoes or a new dress but I held firm.

Actually, what I did was take all of her monthly fixed expenditures like rent, monthly stipend to the parents, etc. and give her that right away so she could take care of those obligations. After that I divided the rest up into four weekly payments and gave it out to her accordingly. Even then she was blowing through the cash as fast as I gave it to her. If I gave her the money on Monday she was often broke by Tuesday. When I refused to release any more funds for the week and she would pout and sulk and tell me I didn’t love her but it eventually sunk in that the money had to last the entire week.

I have to say that even though we had some fights about this method she really did want to learn how to live on what she was making. I have to give her credit for wanting to change and being willing to stick with it.

Once she could live on what she made I figured the next step was to teach her how money is supposed to be used. That it’s a tool to help you make more money and that you want to buy appreciating assets rather than assets that depreciate.

For this, I actually had to reach into my pocket. I made her a small loan of about 3000 baht. I told her she could spend the money any way she wanted but I would show her how she could turn the 3000 baht into 4000 baht.

I walked her through several examples of buying something at wholesale and selling it at retail. How that 3000 baht could become 4000 baht and if she took the 4000 baht and did it again it could become 5300 baht. And if she took the 5300 baht, well, you get the picture.

She got very excited when I showed her a path to being able to replace her job income with her own business. She always wanted her own business and hates what she does (retail sales) but never saw a plan laid out that showed her how to get there. Plus, had she not learned how to live on a budget she would have blown through her capital.

We’re still in the early phases of this experiment but after several brainstorming sessions on what she could sell she’s made a successful trip back to her hometown in Isaan and used the 3000 baht to buy some locally made items that she’s been able to sell to her friends. Her first turnover netted her back 3800 baht which was short of the 4000 baht goal but at I can see a change in her attitude about money. She’s squirreling away money out of her weekly allowance so she can add it to the 3800 baht and buy even more stuff on her next trip home.

Of course, at this stage I’m still financing part of the business. I pay for her trips back home and I’m not really interested in getting my original 3000 baht starting money back. I’m also prone to helping her feel good about how she’s doing by taking her out to celebrate or buying her little gifts as encouragement.

But I’m also getting something back too. I no longer have to explain to her why I’m not spending my money like a drunken sailor. She understands that I need my capital to invest to generate income. When I flip an investment for a profit I show her how I did it and she’s even showing an interest in my business and asking if she can help. And like a good little businessperson she’s also learned to ask for a cut of the profits rather than a straight fee when she does help me.

When I was thinking about whether to write and submit this article I realized that what I’m saying might sound somewhat controlling but she asked me for the help in getting her spending under control. I didn’t take control of her money so I could have some sort of power over her but so that she could gain some power over her own spending urges. So despite the controlling nature of the teaching I feel that in the end she’s more empowered.

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Losing Face is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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I think a serious basic flaw of Thailand is the “losing face” obsession, which is weaved into the very fabric of Thai life and culture….from birth to death… top to bottom. Nobody talks about it. I am aware that I actually know very little about it. So I will appreciate your comments/experiences on this subject.

Near as I can tell, it works like this. If something goes wrong or something isn’t right….anyone who is held as responsible…guilty or not… loses face. Anyone who is embarrassed or shown up loses which is evidently a pretty serious business to khun Thai. Another unfortunate feature of losing face is that it also appears to be permanent and irredeemable

For example, if you make an issue of there being no fire exits and safety features in a bar ..to the person responsible… they lose face and will hate you, maybe even seriously enough to want to hurt you if you persist in your criticisms. If you tell a staff underling (who is not responsible) they will never… ever!… even dream of telling their superior…because he will lose face and there will be hell to pay…. If the food sucks in restaurant don’t bother to complain to the waitperson (who will never ask you how you like your meal) …they’ll never tell anyone because the cook/owner can’t lose face. Check bin and don’t go back. Thai people don’t beep their horns (thank heavens!) because the driver being beeped at loses face…and it may provoke confrontation and/or violence. It’s likely a good idea if you don’t beep as well.
Unwalkable sidewalks? The head of sidewalk maintenance will lose face. Tiptoe thru the tulips. The blockade at the airport?…Nobody held to account because they’d lose face.

Most farang are aware (if somewhat bemused) that even a Thai prostitute the lowest of the lo-so from the Thai perspective will abandon a promising farang forever perhaps even do him violence.. if he makes her lose face. And the losing face thing.. is waaay ingrained into the class/caste system….probably more than we farang can imagine.

When it comes to serious government/bureaucratic decisions…spending billions on a highway to nowhere for example….a poorly built airport they don’t need…or tourist-hostile immigration laws… its very difficult to reverse, correct and remedy these costly bad decisions because the guys at the top…who made them.. can’t lose face. So the highway to nowhere…which everybody knows was a bad idea.. gets half-built…until it runs out of money…and another crumbling, useless half-assed project blights the landscape….and nobody loses face.

Farang…or anybody?…are helpless to change this.

I love and live in Thailand. I wouldn’t trade it’s lax attitude and lack of common sense for even one of the zoning and police regulations I escaped from in the West… where some touch-hole with a tape measure or a badge.. and a rule-book… reads everybody the riot act.
I’ll take the flaws. But its healthy and wise to be aware of them….and act accordingly. You’ve got to be observant, self-reliant and mindful…I always look four ways (and up and down) before crossing a one-way street. In a place where nobody will take care of you… you must take care of yourself.

Hey maybe I’m full of shit but please be generous and gentle in what you say about this essay. I don’t want to lose face.

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Trying to Understand is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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I’m not one of those folks who gets off bashing everything they don’t understand about Thailand and the Thai people but I had two questions I’ve yet to receive a satisfactory response to. They’re not meant to be insulting. I just really would love if someone could explain this to me.

Headaches

Thailand has to be the migraine headache capital of the world. Or maybe I just happen to attract people who have a propensity for them. Seriously though, I’ve never met so many people in such a small sample size that complain that they suffer from migraines. And I’m not talking about the run of the mill headache here. I’ve had more Thai women tell me that they’ve been hospitalized for headaches than anywhere else in the world.

According to some websites on migraines I’ve checked out they say that about 16% of all people will experience at least one migraine over the course of their life. Some will have a migraine headache multiple times over their life but most only have one. Based on that, what are the odds that out of say 100 Thai women I know, AT LEAST 10 (probably closer to 12 or 13 but it’s not like I keep stats) have told me they’ve been hospitalized with a migraine headache during the time I’ve known them. Given that I’ve probably known the girls in the sample an average of less than one year, what kind of amazing odds would there have to be that 10% have all had a migraine in that short of a period?

I can already hear some people chuckling saying that maybe it’s an excuse (oh, not tonight honey, I have a headache haha). But why? I mean, if some girl you haven’t spoken to in a month hits you up and you ask how she’s been and she tells you she’s been in the hospital with headaches for 3 days what point was her to make up a story? I have to believe she’s being honest.

I don’t think it’s environmental because I’ve heard it from girls living in Krabi, Koh Samui, Chiang Mai, and various parts of Isaan.

Am I just running into some freakish statistical anomaly? Do Thais really do suffer from more headaches than most people? Do they carry more stress around as a result of the whole mai ben rai attitude?

Anybody who can shed some light on this care to comment?

Buddhism and Meditation

Maybe this is related to the above question but I recently started asking every Thai friend I run into whether or not they meditate. So far I’ve received 80% no and 20% seldom. But don’t Buddhism and meditation go hand in hand?

I mean, some of these folks are the type who wai every spirit house, temple, and shrine they pass. Some wear big Buddha amulets for good luck, good health, etc. Many regularly go to temple and make merit.

But they don’t mediate.

I’m not passing judgement. I’m well aware that not every Christian goes to church every Sunday, every Muslim doesn’t abstain from booze, and not every Jew holds off on pork. I’m just curious. Because if you ask a Christian why he doesn’t go to church he can probably articulate his reasons. Same for the Jews and Muslims. But when I ask why Thais don’t meditate I’ve gotten answers ranging from “I’m not a monk,” to simply a blank stare as if the question itself was stupid.

I know that Thais don’t practice the most strict form of Buddhism and have a lot of other influences on their take on the religion but when you think of Buddhism you think of meditation.

I don’t even have any theories on this one. I’m completely clueless. Anybody who can shed some light on this for me gets some karma points from me

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Living in Thailand – Life and Death on the Farm is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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This story was related to me recently by a waitress who normally works in Bangkok, but goes back to her village periodically to see her children and work on her farm.

“I buy baby chicken in market five baht. She go, ‘cheep cheep cheep’ allatime. She follow me roun’. She think I am her mudder.

“Everywhere I go, she run behine me, go ‘cheep cheep cheep’ allatime.

“At night, I go in house, leave baby chicken outsigh.

“In morning, I come out, she run roun’, go ‘cheep cheep cheep’, follow me everywhere. Very cute, Doug. I very happy. ‘Cheep cheep cheep’ all day.

“Next day, I working, very happy hearing ‘cheep cheep cheep’. Suddenly, I no hear ‘cheep’. I turn roun’, see big sanake. Very big sanake, more than two meter. Sanake eat baby chicken. I freeze, Doug, stand like …, not know English word.”

“Statue?” I asked.

“Yes, freeze like statue. I stand like that long time. Then sanake move, I move, too, find big satick, hit sanake many time on head. Many time, Doug, I hit sanake and he die.

“I sit down, I cry, Doug, I cry long time, baby chicken dead. Why she die so young? I take satick, pick up sanake, throw in klong, let fish eat. Bad sanake.”

At this point, she was crying heavily, but being the insensitive lout I am, I really wanted to ask about karma. I knew she was a Buddhist, it would have been interesting to find out what she thought about the snake’s karma, the chick’s karma, and her karma, but I refrained. Instead I hugged her until she stopped crying.

“Did you buy another chick?” I asked when she stopped crying.

“No, Doug, I have very bad luck all year, not wan’ kill anudder baby. But cannot stay on my farm, too serious (depressed), so I come back Bangkok.”

————-

Doug Anderson is the author of Speak Easy Thai and webmaster of Learn a Language Faster.

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10 Funny Thai Commercials is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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I was browsing around YouTube the other day and kept running across some crazy funny Thai television commercials. Here’s the ten best and funniest commercials

1. It’s a Miracle?

2. Timing is Everything

3. Get Your Eyes Checked

4. The Thai Smile

5. Suck it up

6. Life is about the small things

7. A belly with a mind of its own

8. Ooops

9. Take care of your car

10. Thai Harder

Plus a bonus one that wasn’t necessarily as funny as the rest but it goes a long way in terms of showing what kind of chances Thai women have of landing a guy.

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Bangkok Writers Guild: Members’ books is a post from: Bangkok Diaries

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Posted by Voicu Mihnea Simandan

Bangkok Writers Guild is an English-speaking Bangkok-based group for published and aspiring authors. At the moment, the group is made up of seven members, all of them with writing and publishing experience. Here are their latest books, listed in alphabetical order of the writer’s surname:

• And Then One Morning
  by Aaron Le Boutillier

And Then One Morning is a personal odyssey that encapsulates the expatriate life on a small tropical island and introduces the reader to the main characters who either survived or perished in the 2004 tsunami.

• Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness: The Truth about the Vatican and the Birth of Islam
  by Gary Dale Cearley

Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness is an uncompromising refutation of religious shyster Alberto Rivera’s tainted testimony as recounted by Jack Chick in his Chick Publication “The Prophet”.  Gary Dale takes apart Rivera’s account of the birth of Islam and alleged Vatican involvement using the historical accounts of what really happened. His research proves Alberto Rivera’s story to be totally fraudulent.

• Travels with the Fish
  by C. Y. Gopinath

The quixotic travels and misadventures of Gopinath in places as varied as Kerala and Turkey, Thailand and Chicago, Jerusalem and Bhusaval, form not merely an absorbing narrative of a bon vivant’s wanderings, but are also a raconteur’s treasury of sometimes hilarious stories that can be retold at parties. Always at hand, of course, is the Fish, armchair traveler and eternal nitpicker, ever ready to puncture the narrative with raised eyebrow and scathing putdown whenever he feels the telling has grown richer than the tale. Be it a quest for the legendary Sultan Saladin’s farman in Jerusalem, or a struggle to carry 300 kgs of vegetables from Bangkok to Borivali, Gopinath’s stories are woven through with sensitive insights into varied cultures, lifestyles and culinary habits.

• Bangkok Blondes
  by Anette Pollner (editor)

Very few books on Thailand are written by women. Bangkok Blondes is one of the first. It reflects the lives of creative women who live and write in Thailand – The Bangkok Women’s Writers Group. Bangkok Blondes shows you everything in the tourist package and more…

• The Ironman. A Play
  by Voicu Mihnea Simandan

The Lesters are living a quiet life in their beautiful house on the top of a hill. Although their parents are always busy, Brandon, Alice, and Wasan lead a happy life, playing ball and running around the house all day long. But, the world they know will soon change. Something terrible is going to happen. The Ironman is coming… The Ironman. A Play is a thought-provoking play for children that will keep the young ones glued to its pages until the very end.

• Forward O Peasant!
  by Maclean J. Storer

When Phillip Snow is sent to Vietnam to investigate the disappearance of a colleague, he’s not happy at the thought of spending time in a place about which he knows nothing except that it’s lightly carpeted with a chemical called Agent Orange. But carcinogenic poisons aren’t anywhere near as dangerous as the local officials, who will do anything it takes to stop him finding out what really happened. Surrounded by hostile Marxist ideologues, drunken expats, hypervigilant beggars, lunatic waiters, and bureaucrats with all the efficiency and charm of a sock puppet, Snow knows he is in a life-or-death battle to stop himself becoming as mad as everyone else…..

• Diner Dharma
  by Dan Thompson
  (former member of Bangkok Writers Guild)

Monk saw a sign.  It was that sign that brought a Buddhist monk off the roads of West Texas to the Attaboy Diner.  Not only the sign but the secrets he keeps.  The locals soon give him another mystery to solve: the not-so-great train robbery.  From chicken round ups to rodeos our bare-backed, backwards-riding Monk is called on time and time again to tell a story.  He tells about Issa the Mason who Wouldn’t Be King, about the Death of the Phoenix.  He tells these stories to a crazy cast of characters including townies like Isabella, the Queen of the Proverb, and to passers-thru like Bubba the mystical trucker…Come on in and sit a spell!  Pull up a booth and settle in.  Let Monk tell you a story!

• Quotations For Positive People
  by Larry Welch

The book contains a 9-year collection of street smart wisdom that has appeared in On the run…, a not-for-profit electronic newsletter that encourages positive thinking, betterment of human hearts, and personal development in communications and critical thinking. The quotations are easily digested, relevant to today’s world, and uplifting to the inner spirit. The wise viewpoints presented come from authors, business personalities, clergymen, entertainers, historical figures, media celebrities, Nobel laureates, philosophers, presidents, poets, politicians, scientists, sports stars, historical figures, and everyday people who share their take on the human condition. From thoughts on achievement to an insight on youth, the sages of our age express their ideas on why we are what we are and how we might be better through positive thinking. In all, 541 positive thinkers give their thoughts in 788 quotations. Whenever possible a brief description is given of the lifetime achievements of contributors.

The Bangkok Writers Guild meets every month at Bourbon Street restaurant-bar (in the back room) at 7 pm, on Sukhumvit Soi 22, Bangkok. Stay tuned for the exact date.

Voicu Mihnea Simandan is a Romanian writer, member of the Bangkok Writers Guild, who has been living and working in Thailand since 2002. He is the author of “The Ironman. A Play”, a book for children well-received in educational circles.

Are you a short story writer?
Why don’t you submit your best short story to the
New Asian Writing Short Story Anthology?

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