The Mia Noi Conundrum

I cheat on my wife. Yeah, it doesn’t sound real nice but that’s what it is. Its not that overall I’m a bad guy; I don’t steal, scam, screw kids or preach religion and I do make sure I’m an excellent father. I do love my wife very much and do my best to be the caring and good husband that she deserves. The problem is that I cant fathom being with just one woman for life.

I didn’t want to come to Asia, in fact I did it as a favour to my wife which of course is quite ironic. My wife is Lao and we were married 7 years ago in Oregon when I met her while buying a suit. I had promised her I would take her home within 5 years to see her family that she hadn’t seen in 10 years. When I won a trip to Thailand for business I realized this would be the time I could fulfil my promise and get it over with.

We decided that she would go to Laos immediately and I would stay in Bangkok for my meetings for a week and then go to Vientiane. I invited an old friend to go with me and he couldn’t pass up free food and a 4 star Westin hotel. As I watched my wife’s plane leave we were already getting excited about what to do next. We started by walking down Sukhumvit just seeing the sights and living the glory of a Bangkok rookie and that’s where we met Daeng.

Daeng is a tout and he turned out to be the best friend money could ever buy. He of course proved his worth from start to finish by telling us all the horror stories of the mafia and freelancers. He also told us how dangerous the bars were and that probably the only places that we would be safe were the places where he could take us and thereby earn himself the biggest commission. I’m ok with Daeng, after all everybody has to make a living but we tired of him quickly.

After a couple days of hitting the “untraditional” massage parlours I decided I just wanted a normal massage and went to a place on Sukhumvit. I had heard that these girls weren’t hookers and all I wanted was a massage anyway. That’s where I met the woman that has captured my imagination ever since. We hadn’t been in our room together for even an hour and the session turned into something beyond the traditional massage. It wasn’t sex immediately as the rooms were too transparent but we were definitely close and when I met her again after work back at my hotel we had a night together that I still reflect on from time to time. I then spent the remainder of my week with her.

I had in only a few short days become addicted to Thailand and in love with a woman I hardly knew. I never lied to “Oy” and told her right off that I was married. We seemed however to be, if not in love anyway, extremely infatuated. I quickly arranged for another trip 3 months later and we would talk on the phone at least every week and sometimes more. My next trip was for 2 weeks and we were inseparable. In fact my friend who had also come back was slightly annoyed as he wanted to chase skirts a little and I wasn’t interested. I only had eyes for Oy. I used the excuse that because I was married I felt there was less risk of a disease by staying with one woman but the plain truth was that I was falling in love.

When I left I became very depressed and was obsessed with how to get back to Thailand and back to Oy. It was very difficult for me to get back both with coming up with excuses for my wife and work so I wasn’t able to plan another trip until the next spring 8 months later. In the meantime we had weekly phone calls and there was plenty of “kit tung, kit tung” etc..

Now I may be dumb but try not to be entirely stupid and I figured I wasn’t the only person she would see. I would always call her at night in Bangkok and I never missed her. As she always answered the phone I thought maybe everything was going according to plan. I guess I was hoping it was just the usual hand jobs but deep down I knew more was going on. I rationalized it by saying everybody needs to make a living and I’m not supporting her so it was ok with me as long as it was me she was in love with.

With my next trip coming in February 2006 I was extremely excited however fate was cruel and my mother suffered from a condition that kept her in intensive care for 3 months and although she is only 64 we thought on several occasions that she was going to die. My trip was at first postponed and then she got sick again and I was forced to cancel altogether. I needed to help take care of her. I was responsible and even though my heart ached terribly at not seeing Oy I had someone who needed me more.

Obviously there was an extreme amount of stress in my life. I was so busy everyday making life and death decisions that I was often unable to talk to Oy with very sporadic exceptions. After about 3 months of this I wrote an email to Oy telling her that she deserved better than me, I wasn’t able to come visit and she was better off without me in her life. Two months slowly, painfully ticked by and although I didn’t stop thinking about Oy we didn’t speak at all. Finally when my mother was better I sent her an email just to see if she was ok and she responded quickly asking me to call her again. So I did and…after talking a couple times she admitted to having met someone. I was heartbroken, I felt like I had been punched in the gut but this pain would not go away. She told me she wasn’t sure if it was going anywhere but even though she loved me I don’t live in Bangkok and he does. I told her it would be ok as long as he was a good person and would be a good partner for her but inside I was reeling.

My next trip was late in the summer and although we still talked on the phone I noticed she wouldn’t always pick up. In other words I knew I was in trouble. A Thai girl that doesn’t answer her phone is a Thai girl that is with a man. My wife was with me on this last trip but Oy said she wanted to see me so I came up with an excuse and got away for an afternoon. We met on Sukhumvit and it was just like old times again and soon we had rented a hotel and were seemingly awash in love again.

After we made love she told me she had agreed to move in with her new boyfriend. I tried to play it off and joked that I was now her “pua noi” and things went well enough but I noticed that she would only see me during the day and was unwilling to take a risk to be with me. Fair enough I figured as I hadn’t always been reliable in seeing her, had told her to move on and she has… supposedly anyway. Now she says on my upcoming trip she wants to see me everyday before she goes home to her German boyfriend.

Now I have several dilemmas; for one thing these meetings feel like short times and I don’t care for short times or I wouldn’t have ever had a relationship in the first place. Another dilemma is this new boyfriend; How would I feel if somebody was banging loads into my girlfriend every day before I kissed her to welcome her home? I do know she also has another boyfriend from Florida who speaks Thai so if it isn’t me she’ll be into somebody anyhow, but still… Lastly, I’m in serious love with her and it is very uncomfortable when she’s in and out in 2 hours and I cant live the fantasy that she’s not a plain hooker. She is also very hot and cold so I’m also getting annoyed as well as a Thailand education in “3rd world love” and what it really means. The funny (stupid) thing is that if she played her cards right I probably would be dumb enough to support her for life. Well maybe not now but I would have earlier.

Anyway, for any of you readers that are still with me my question is this; Can a farang with enough money get away with having a mia noi? What is a guy to do that feels the need to roam but is put off by short term trysts? I’m hoping some of you out there know people like me that feel this same way and I’m hoping your willing to give me any input you might have on any ideas or anyone that has made this work. If I found the right woman I wouldn’t mind if they got old and grey right along with me. Am I crazy???

Is it feasible? I have changed names obviously to protect the guilty.


27 thoughts on “The Mia Noi Conundrum”

  1. I’ve been there done that. Believe me, punishing yourself over Oy is not going to do you any good. She’s only a piece of pussy man! Get that in your head. There are plenty of others, some probably even better. Don’t waste your time agonizing over things you have no control over. Concentrate on the life you have. It sounds like you have a good wife, family, life. Keep them in mind and don’t squander them.

  2. You have exactly the same problem I have. I have a wife I love to death but cannot be with one person for the rest of my life. I have tried to brainwash myself that if she doesn’t know and I am as good to her as I have always been than what is the harm in cheating. I admit and understand now that I cannot stop and if it ruins my marraige someday than my marraige would have lasted longer because of it than if I never cheated at all. Without cheating I would be a horrible husband I am sure, I would be so consumed with the thoughts of cheating and so angry that I could not endulge that I would be a totally different person. It is the ugly truth that I am not afraid to admit.

    Long story short, is that from my experiences in life, you cannot get away with anything forever. Sooner or later your 2 worlds will collide. You have done the right thing by telling the truth to the thai girlfriend from the start because I had a similar situation but failed to tell the truth about my marraige and was a fine hair away from having everything ruined by a thai girlfriend who called my wifes cell phone. When I was in Thailand on my 2nd trip to see the thai GF, my wife was calling my Thai cell phone and the Thai GF wrote down the number from the caller ID to see who it was. The thai GF thought my wife was just a girlfriend and when I went back home and didn’t pick up my phone she called the other number to find out where I was. I have been able to lie to my wife enough to make her believe that it was some mistake and that my SIM card was lost in Thailand so this was the result. Dear god I thought my marraige was over at that moment. When the trouble started, I realized something. I love my wife more than I ever thought I loved this Thai GF but was totally wrapped up in the moment and the feelings I was having. I was playing a very dangerous game of lies but did not want this fantasy to end.

    I will continue to cheat until I die and hope and pray that I am never found out BUT I will be straight up and honest from the start if I ever decide to have a long term GF on the side.

    To answer your question again, I think the 2 worlds will collide at some point because you will not be able to keep up with the lies and excuses forever. It sounds like you have the disposable income to provide for a thai GF and not be noticed by the wife at home and it sounds like a once a week phone call is a lot easier to hide than daily phone calls which was my case. The only thing I think is going to be tough is the excuses you will need to come up with for your trips to Thailand.

    My advise (disclaimer to be inserted here) is stay honest and upfront with the Girlfriend from the start like you have been doing, keep the phone calls down to once a week like you have been doing, never give more money than you can afford,and hope that you are never caught by the wife. You sound like a very intelligent man and make the right decisions (i.e.- cancelling your trip when mother was ill which sounds like a no brainer but people have cloudy judgement when in love)…

    The bottom line is this addiction is going to hurt us one way or another, we are either going to be worse to our Spouse because we are not feeding our addiction or we are going to be better happier husbands because we have fulfilled our inherent needs. The only problem is that if we are ever discovered than we hurt someone we care about (wife) and she does not deserve that. Best of luck and if you find the answer to your question, please share with a person in a similar situation….. you can email me at [email protected]

  3. You are chasing an illusion.I want to tell you to stop doing what you are doing and go back to your life.I was married to a lovely lady after knowing her for years. I staryed in my marriage and divorced my wife to be with this woman,only to find out that it just wasnt worth it.You sound like a good man with a decent life to go back to.Try and see the little things that attracted you to your wife in the first place.Go back to your life and leave this woman.She is a hooker,however romantically you may look at it .Wwe tend to be facinated and drawn towards women who appear to be helpless and wild.This is a quicksand.Have your fun if that means so much to you ,but let it be that.No slut can take your wifes place.Rememebr the words” Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife?to hold and cherish till death do you apart? i am a hindu but these words ring in my mind..god bless you and take the right decision..

  4. In the same situation. Have a Filipino wife (40) who is very attractive and loyal, and looks 25, and a Thai Mia Noi (30). Mia Noi knows about the wife and is comfortable with it. Been going on for 2 years and no troubles so far. I look after them both (financialy and emotionaly) and care deeply for them both. I am very happy and so are they so what’s the problem? Some guys were not meant to be “one woman” people.

  5. i understand the not wanting to be with just one woman thing,,,,,,but supporting two woman,,,,thats just stupid, i have a Thai Wife, i was able long ago too talk into threesomes, we were out one night, we both were a bit drunk, i brought it up (i think it was more of a joke) she agreed and she went a and talk to a woman, next thing i knew i was banging them both, she has told me she doesnt like it all the time, but she wants me happy, and i take advantage of it whenever i can, so prob between 1-2 a month she get me a woman, she want to anything with them, but she has licked nipple and kiss them, but she will let them go down on her,
    so my life is Good

  6. Pingback: Mia Gik Conundrum

  7. What is it with farang men and “hired” Thai paramours? I recently found out that The Boyfriend went through such a faze as well, waaaay before we met. That was a long time ago, thanks heavens, but it still really pisses me off to think about it. Which reminds me, I have to write about it soon-ish =)

  8. Sorry I think you are just immature and inexperience and just need to bang and get involved load more chicks to get over it. I went through what you did when I first arrived in Asia.

    If you bang enough girls you reach the point where you only want to have sex with your loving wife. You will be in Nana surrounded by gorgeous hookers and only think about having sex with your wife or X years of marriage.

    Just need to do some growing up…. Good luck.

  9. My father had a man-to-man chat with me when I was a teenager. I clearly remember him telling me, “Son, a man needs a woman who can cook and clean. A wowan who is good with money and can raise a family. A man also needs a woman who is beautiful, sexy and wild in the bedroom. It is absolutely essential that these two women never meet”. There’s no denying it. I need my wife and I need my Mia Noi.

  10. I hereby would like to react to you from the other side. I know that you have not asked for female reactions, but I would just like you to know that some day your wife will discover this and it might destroy her life and yours too. On the other side, she is Lao and maybe just like the other Thais, as long as you take care of her, she might maybe not care…but if she has become more like a foreigner, than she will be very hurt. Why do you not just visit a regular hooker, because what will hurt your wife is the fact that you love another woman. If you visit a hooker, you do not love and that is more acceptable.
    Another thing I would like to mention is, but of course you will think I am absolutel wrong, that your nice mia noi has probably many bf like you, and the fact that you call her in the night does not mean that much. Some girls are really active in the morning, especially if they know you call at night.
    Also have I heard of oh so many man having gone through the same as you, but unfortunately their wifes did find out. Some men, so crazy, decided that they would start a new life with their mia noi’s. And many of those are empty pockets at the end and their Mia noi’s with a nice house cars and lots of other stuff and just kick you out.
    Also count on familly members getting sick, and she will of course need the money for some operations etc….will you refuse her?

    They have a good eye for money and know where they can get it. Tell her your business is not going that well with the crisis, no spare money…just true love…well lets see how long she will stay…well you think that your money can buy love, go ahead, but I can tell you that true love is at home with your wife and kids. If you have the intention to hurt them, go on with your mia noi.

    I don’t hope you will learn it the hard way, but as you might not be the person to be willing to listen you might have to…I just feel sorry for your wife and Kids…because their life will never be the same.

    But finally again to your question, yes you can get away with it and have this mia noi (shared with other men of course) and you know, maybe your wife is actually already aware of it, but she might just close her eyes as she still is with you and has a good live, but in the end, it will be you who will get crazy as this mia noi has no feelings for you at all and got away with the money that you could have better spent on your wife and kids.

    Good luck with your decisions and sorry for the reaction that is maybe not written in a very constructive way.

  11. Patsy,

    Have you lost your, ever loving, mind? Listen to yourself. Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously?

    First, you say that you have a wife and children. Additionally, you say that your family is important to you. Your wife is Southeast Asian. You run off and become infatuated with a new Southeast Asian woman. You spend some time with her. You think you fall in love. This is all good. Love is a many splendored thing.

    Then, you figure out, and she confirms, that she is still on the Game. But you see her anyway in between her previously scheduled time. This is also very well and good.

    Then, she says that she is moving to Germany to be with a boyfriend. But she wants to spend some time with you before she leaves. This, also is wonderful. Stupendous, in fact. If possible, take her up on it. Departure sex is the best.

    You claim not to have been supporting her during all of this time. As I put it together, it adds up to about 2 years. Presumably, she will leave for Germany. You will remember her kindly and continue to have a desire for her. It’s a wonderful way to end a beautiful relationship.This is still very good.

    What comes next defies any logic whatsoever. You talk about wanting to keep her. Even until she is old and gray.

    If you want to grow old with an Asian woman, why not your wife? You already have her and are obligated to keep her in the style commensurate with your abilities. And since she is the mother of your children, you will never be totally rid of her.

    You also stated that you just can’t see yourself with one woman for the rest of your life. You just like variety. That is also well and good. Why the hell, then, would you want to keep one particular hooker until she is too old to abuse? And to pay for it, when you’re not there, is even more ridiculous.

    SHE HAS MOVED ON!!!!!! SO SHOULD YOU!!!!! She is not available to be kept. Not by you. Not by the German with whom she is going to live. Not by the American from Florida who speaks Thai. Not by anyone. SHE IS ON THE GAME. She may take your money, but, rest assured, she will not give you her life in return.

    AND SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU. IT IS YOUR MONEY THAT SHE LOVES!!!!! Give her enough, when you’re with her to keep her love on a slow simmer. Do not stoke the fire to heavily. You will put out the embers by burying them. When you are not there. Let the fire go out. It’s not worth the money to try to tend it when you are not there. And she is not there either, at this point.

    Go back to the land of Angels and find another one. They’re everywhere and, for a fee, will give you everything that you want. Fall in love with her too. Then go back home to your family. When you stop feeding the fire with greenbacks, she, too, will eventually move on to a farang who will whisk her away to his western world. REPEAT.

    In the mean time, you have a woman with whom to grow old. You don’t need another old lady. She would be superflous. You want young and sexually appealing. Which means that you will have to get a fresh one periodically. Never keep one beyond her, sell by, date. By doing so, you’re defeating the entire purpose.

    And, as for your wife. She serves a good and noble purpose. She is the caretaker of your progeny and the maker of your home. She keeps you grounded and secure. She provides a place for you to come and lick your wounds after the whores on the street kick you around a bit. Honor her generously in every way, so that, even if she finds out about your proclivities, she will see value in staying with you anyway. She may even be complicitous in maintaining your happiness, if it means hers too.

  12. New Yorker in Siam

    I’ve meet a lovely thai lady when I was 32 after a messy divorce in NYC. It was love at first sight for me and her, we couldn’t be seen apart from one another. She went back to Thailand and I went to see her off and on for 3 years. When I got a chance to work for a company in Bangkok I decided to move there. After a six month courting and meeting each other and having the approval of her parents we got married. Now we have 2 kids and been married for 7 years, but two years ago I meet another Thai lady who knows I’m married and I’m in love with her too! It’s like when I meet my first thai lady all lovey dovey again. Two years into it and all is still good and my wife knows of her but I think she tries to forget that she’s there. I take care of both equally but make sure my wife is #1. The second (mia noi) knows she is second to her but I think she wishes one day she would be #1! I don’t wish to hurt my wife or the mia noi but I think they realize that I’m not a one woman man. I haven’t gone out looking for another as theses two satisfy me and I hope I take care of them and make their lifes easier as they make mine. If you feel guilty or have a guilt trip I think this lifestyle aint for you man. But if you truly think it’s good for all involved then why not? You only live once!

  13. Wow, it’s interesting to read much more articulate, inteligent stories written here than on 99% of other chats. Perhaps it’s that people that can manage to maintain a mia noi have to have some smarts. I am in a similar boat, have a Thai wife and a Thai mia noi. Think I’m madly in love with my mia noi, but struggling daily mentally with how I can escape my wife to be with my love. My excuse is that my wife has been such a “b” for several years (since having our son, or a bit before). But I always had a roaming eye, just never acted on it. My life will be miserable if I have to go through a divorce, but even if I wanted to I can’t imagine telling my mia noi I just can’t pull it off anymore. And she is loyal and faithful (I know some will snicker, whatever). I also feel one woman just won’t satify me, but the nuclear reaction that will happen if (when) my wife founds out is a scary thought.Patsy’s letter is too old now, he should update! But yes, Patsy, in many ways we are in the same boat, but your boat sailed away my man, and I hope it all worked out ok for you.I will use Unions letter as my mantra, to try to stop thiking so much (this is fun? what the heck, I’m supposed to be relaxing in Thailand).

  14. I think all of you are (well most of you) have just a big ego and little consideratino for your wives and childres….you kow children they are a little bit important aren’t they. If you have a daughter? What are you going to teach her….be nice and faithful of course.just look pretty.
    It reminds me of integrist muslims who at least have the gust to say what they think.
    You wives deserves better

  15. Well, it is nice to know that there are real human beings. Good for you to learn and grow as a person. You answered the universal question “can you love more than one person” YES!!

    I come from a world where having a mistess or little wife is the norm and although I am in the US I see that having one ore several women is the secret to having a happy life (at least for me).
    Grear story and keep up the good work Best of luck to you!!

  16. I think the topic is very interesting. I won’t touch morality but I beleive nothing is more hurtful than being decieved and betrayed. I wonder why these kind of men marry anyway. It’s sad, not because I’m a woman but because this situation is a reality.

    It is a fact as well that there are people who have no values at all about what is the meaning of marriage, no matter what culture and or religious background, if values were not igrained in their hearts they will mess up. I wonder also if there respective fathers did the same thing to their respective mothers.

    Anyway, “can’t be with one person in life” seems vague and definitely hard for me to understand why these men saying this got married. As far as I understand, the word MARRIAGE means living with a single person ( until ended by divorce of course). You may have your own reasons apart from what you expressed, it’s the same as those women wo have that kind of relationship with you regardless of being aware of your status. This is not new anyway in here,I heard some say, it’s just the way of life in Thailand, moreover, it is a woman’s pride to be a mistress.

    You farangs shouldn’t be more proud, I don’t have the statistics but I’m sure you’re being outnumbered by Thai men. LOLOL! And yeah, you could be the dumbest believing that you are your “mistress” one and only.

    Finally, I just hope that your respective wives have the same perspective as you “can’t be with just one man in life”. If you can hide from them, why can’t they?

  17. Cheat on your wife all you like, just be discreet and stick to pros. My wife once told me she wasn’t that worried about me seeing hookers, because she never heard of anyone losing their husband to one. On the other hand she’d known many friends who lost their husband through affairs that began innocently, at the office or wherever.

  18. i take my hat off to all you guys that can maintain a mia noi and not get caught. i live in bkk and try my hardest at every moment to find one. after trying repeatedly i just gave up as it is just too much trouble. i also can not fathom being with the same woman for the rest of my life. as a result of reading all these posts, i think i should go home and dump the missus! let all men have freedom and multiple women! i am a dog and feel the need to go sniff things out around town. praise buddah for all the beautiful women here in thailand!

  19. It is a story I have both heard and probably experienced myself many times before. Without being judgemental there are two thing to be born in mind about the sexual culture of farangs (western foriegners) in Thailand with “mia noi” (“rented wives” – emphasis on the rent as will be explained):
    Firstly, a farang is very much spoilt be the easy and cheap availability of beautiful young and highly available women – the experience spoils the ability to both fixate and commit to a single partner (even if that be a serial fixation (like serial monogamy))
    Secondly, the rental aspects of the “mia noi” profession (referring of course to the living that those women effectively make of it) similarly spoil the womans ability to commit and fixate on a single partner when they (whether they themselves or rather i mean in relation the their patrons) rent themselves out for cash and a living.
    It is very sad but the way it is, and Thai women, at least once they have spent several years in the profession are unlikely to be able to relate to you with genuine commitment: ditto for the man… there is no sexism here…
    I wish you genuine luck but I feel equally sorry for your “current” wife but you would be better off moving on from you current mia noi, keeping it more casual in future (like your mate), and sticking to your current wife.

  20. Matt are you for real? Perhaps you might like having two sexy,women rather than the old ball and chain. Western women try to “own ” men and the pussy whipped men just stand by and allow it.
    Time to grow some sense as a MALE!!!! That foolishness about sexually faithful lands you in the Western Hell of no sex. At least with viable option you can have a great life and sex. Let’s face it you pay no matter what the point is that with competition you the consumer get a better deal. The official wife knows her position is secure and the small wife gets what she wants too! A win-win situation. Too bad you don’t see reality!

  21. Give up on the idea that a hooker’s expression of love actually means something – you are dealing with black magic witches with some fairy dust… Relationships are a cash crop, entrepreneurial business for women in Thailand – wake da _____ up.
    Illusion is their strength. Delusion is yours.

  22. simple question:
    would you allow your wife to have sex regularly with another guy because she could not imagine being with only one guy the rest of her life?

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