Am I invisible?

Sometimes when I am out at a farang party, which includes lots of Thai women but no Thai men, I feel undesirable, invisible, and at times just like one of the guys.  Most farang men will not attempt to strike up a conversation or even glance my way because they already have a Thai woman on their arm or they are entranced by their high-pitched giggles.  However, there are some farang men that do enjoy intelligent banter and will come my way, but their body langauge usually tells me they are only there to escape the giggles….temporarily.  I have recently experienced two farang parties back to back. I’m not sure if I was even at the first one, but at the second one my attendance was definetly noted on some level!

On Friday night, after a cheap Thai dinner and an evening of choosing fabrics to adorn my studio apartment, I decided to venture down the soi to a farang birthday party.  As I entered the trendy, retro bar I saw lots of Thais mixing and minging, but the birthday boy was no where in sight.  One of the servers noticed me (Thais do notice me) and directed me to Khun Dan’s party.  Once upstairs it was a totally different scene- lots of farang men throwing smiles at  beautiful Thai women, farang women chatting in their little groups, and the birthday boy bouncing around and bathing in the attention of both Thai and farang women.   I realized I was seriouly sober and under dressed which is always a bad combination at these parties. To my relief I quickly found my French friend with a cigarette and a wine glass filled with whiskey and soda.  Before I could even sit down she told me she couldn’t even entice a smile out of the farang women or a glance from a man (all of them being farang).  I laughed to myself; not only are we invisible to farang men, but we are snubbed by farang women.   

I only stayed for an hour and during that time I spoke with a few Thai women, squeezed a conversation out of a blonde, experienced some limp handshakes with a few farang men, and was offered none of the free alcohol or cake.  I must also mention that at one point during the evening I thought I was visible to an attractive man and that he wanted to dance with me.  I was sitting down chatting with my French friend, my invisible glass was empty, the music made me want to dance, and there was a cute guy leaning against the pool table motioning for me to come over.  Really? No.  A demure, mid-riff baring, Thai woman wearing glasses emerged from behind me and began to swivel her hips in his direction. I knew it was too good to be true and before I left the birthday boy put the icing on the cake I never ate by telling me he wished me a good life because he doesn’t think he will see me again!

I didn’t have to deal with anyone reconfirming my invisibleness on Saturday night, and in fact I was rewarded for being visible: perfect attendance and excellent teaching performance.  I knew most of the people at the party and even though most of the male teachers had their Thai women and kids in tow it felt comfortable.  Everyone was wearing red and green, eating lots, drinking some, and awkwardly singing karaoke. 

farang_girl

My friends say I am becoming more and more like a Thai girl everyday! Not sure in what sense they mean as my skin is still pale, and Thai waitresses always respond with "aray na?" or blank stares when I ask for a glass of water! However, I am not obnoxious and/or big boned like many farang women here. I am soft spoken, polite, short, and always willing to lend a smile and help to friends and often to strangers as well. Many Thai women can be described the same way, so I guess I am somewhat Thai! But I will be honest with you....I am Canadian! I grew up in the capital city of British Columbia ( not Vancouver) and left university with an interesting but useless degree in Pacific and Asian Studies. My interest in Southeast Asia brought me to Bangkok over three years ago. It is here where I have found my independece and made myself a home....at least for right now!

46 thoughts on “Am I invisible?

  • December 18, 2007 at 7:20 am
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    It must be tough for western woman in Thailand. Western men usually focus on the Thais, but I’m sure that many Thai guys find you very interesting.

  • December 18, 2007 at 8:10 am
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    But honestly what do farang woman expect? If they took care of themselves like Thais. Then they would be much more appealing. But instead they let themselves go after college. This is not limited to the woman though. Same can be said for the men.

  • December 19, 2007 at 12:12 am
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    Honestly, farang women expect or rather hope that men will want something more than giggly beautiful girls that either can’t communicate with them or whose values are totally different than theirs. And if you want to talk about “letting yourself go after college” please take a look at a large number of farang men here and then look at the farang women…..the men are the ones that don’t take care of themselves and most likely couldn’t even get a girl to look at them in their home country. Most farang women could easily pick up a Thai guy here, but they are less likely to settle with someone that only looks great.

  • December 19, 2007 at 8:11 am
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    I did mention the men, farang men don’t take care of themselves either. I’m lucky that I am still young and in Thailand. But 90% of farang men here are definately no head turners.

    But Thai girls have values. If you find a good one, not the ones working in the entertainment venues. Unfortunately, money corrupts those values, but that is the same all over. Would any girl honestly look at Hugh Heffner if he wasn’t rich? Most farang men seem very wealthy to Thai girls and that corrupts their values.

  • December 19, 2007 at 3:36 pm
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    Farang_girl,
    considering the bitterness of this post, I would like first to say I feel sorry for you and than I sincerely hope than your situation will improve, may be after a little bit of self-criticism.
    “Invisible” seems to me incorrect, visible would fit better, as it is plain to see that you far too visible, or can I say predictable, and that’s why you encounter the problems you mentioned.
    I guess that at the first look you are classified by the people you would like to attract as unattractive and boring. Thus I would suggest you change something starting with your mindset. Intelligence is the ability to adapt to one’s environment isn’t it?
    You could learn a lot by looking at these Thai women you resent for succeeding where you are failing. Thai women are not more beautiful than western women, but they are more charming, the big difference being their behavior. They know what’s men like and want.

    Marie,
    These “giggly beautiful girls” can communicate very well otherwise they wouldn’t be so successful. Have you ever wondered what is exactly communication?
    Also, can’t you understand that their different values and culture may be part of the attraction they exert?
    Are you implying that Thai men have only great looks and no wit?

  • December 20, 2007 at 12:57 am
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    Gates of Paradox,
    First off I would like to say perhaps you are right! Haha…I bet you love that! I am very visible as a farang woman in Thailand, but it also means that I don’t fit in the Farang male radar. Okay, you may say farang and Thai women are equally attractive but farang men in general don’t pursue or sometimes even acknowlege farang women. Initially, things are based purely on looks and I do not look Thai. I am not resentful towards Thai women; in fact quite often I get along better with Thai women than farang women. There are many Thai women that are intelligent, beautiful, and interesting. However, in my post I was referring to the “giggly thai girls” that farang men will often gravitate towards instead of entertaining a conversation with farang women. Is intelligence really the ability to pretend to agree with everything a guy says and giggle all the time? If so the Thai women can have all the farang men because I won’t play stupid. I am not going to change myself to get a guy; i’d rather be single. I’d rather be single than take the advise of someone who has never met me, but says i am “boring”, “predicatble”, and “unattractive”. To be honest with you I don’t desire a farang boyfriend, just some respect and acknowledgement.

    “Intelligence is the ability to adapt to one’s environment isn’t it?” It is and I have learned Thai, made Thai friends, been introduced and dated witty Thai men (they do exist but you don’t see every other farang woman hanging off the arm of some Thai man.) In general, Thai men (the good ones anyways) are far more conservative and slow compared to Western men. An interesting, witty,and attractive thai man won’t just appear…he needs to be discovered or he takes his time to discover you. So these guys can be hard to come by. But Thai men who have only great looks are easy to come by but I won’t settle as some men do for giggly girls.

  • July 1, 2008 at 5:27 pm
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    “I am not going to change myself to get a guy; i’d rather be single.”

    …and that’s the difference between you and all those Thai girls who are attracting the farang men. Thai women treat farang men in a way that Western women refuse to; they will, indeed, adapt themselves to get a guy. Personally, I wouldn’t sum this up as ‘giggling’ or ‘pretending to agree with everything a man says’ but perhaps I’m only deluding myself.

    You mentioned in your post that you were sitting at a table and that your invisible glass was empty; words that seem to imply that a man should have filled it for you.

    A Thai woman at a party would worry about keeping the glass filled for the man! I don’t know any Thai women who would expect me to serve them, and this is a cultural difference which, as a man, I enjoy.

    At a dinner with a Thai woman, she will filet my fish, peel my shrimp, put fresh ice in my glass and and make sure that I am content.

    I’m a farang man and I love being pampered and treated like I’m special. Thai women do this in a hundred ways that no Western woman I know would really even think of doing.

    I’m not asking you to change. You have your own principles that guide your life and define who you are. But you seem to be puzzled by the lack of attention you receive.

    I’d suggest that the attitude towards men & relationships that you enunciated clearly and concisely in the sentence quoted at the top of this comment (a common sentiment among most western women I know) goes a long way towards explaining your experience in Thailand.

    It seems to me that you get very much what you have chosen.

    You don’t want to be like the Thai women you describe (in fact you seem to speak of them contemptuously), but you want to be treated the same way as they are by the men who give them attention.

    To me, that equation doesn’t compute.

  • July 1, 2008 at 10:05 pm
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    I have to go with WW here but from a slightly different angle. A lot of the pampering a farang male gets in Thailand is very similar to what farang women get in the West. Personally I’m a little uncomfortable with all of the attention a Thai lady will show you if she really likes you but in general I don’t feel comfortable with people doing things for me. I guess it takes some getting used to.

    But is her peeling my shrimp any different from me opening the door for a lady in the West? When she makes sure there’s enough ice in my water is that too far different from when I open the car door for a woman and help her into the vehicle? These are just things “gentlemen” are expected to do in the West. In Thailand, these woman also have expectations of them as proper Thai ladies.

    As WW points out, this is an equation and I often think that farang men prefer Thai women because the equation is so out of whack in the West. In Thailand the equation is a little more equal and I dare say that it possibly swings in favor of the men since many of them were never true gentlemen back home.

    You’ve made a choice not to adapt yourself so you can’t be too surprised if the results are exactly what any guy could predict. What if I were to say that I refuse to pay for a woman’s meal or buy a lady a drink because I find such acts demeaning? Would you not say that I should not be too surprised if I found myself dateless?

  • July 10, 2008 at 7:42 pm
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    Have you seen most of the farang men here with Thai girlfriends??? – pleeease….usually got a good job which makes them feel like their some big player or something, usually eaten all the pies, pasty, often spoilt, not altogether attractive – I mean I am single and red bloodied but wherever I have lived in the world I ain’t never been that desperate! I agree that farang women need to stop fighting with men and that there is strength in Asian women’s apparent subservience – but just like Asian women might wash your feet and peel your prawns there is something possibly that you farang men could learn. As much as a farang man doesn’t like a farang woman with a personality or god forbid, actually more intelligent!!?? – farang women don’t like fat pasty out of shape British guys who drink 8 pints of stella and think having a suit job in Asia makes them some kind of city slicker. We don’t like men who watch sport all the time, have no concept of anything spiritual and who see sex as something that is just for them. I have often believed that cultural and language differences can be a blessing in the dating world of the less appealing – as it takes you a while to decipher that yes, he is actually as boring as you first suspected – and by that time you’re probably married! Werewolf you’re the kind of male – met them a thousand times over – who thinks he is brighter than he is and you are a bit of a ponce – ‘that equation doesn’t compute’ – might impress someone with less of a grasp of English but get a grip! I am not criticising farang men for going with Thai women and I like to look after my man. But don’t think that all farang women are ball breakers or that they want you farang men – it just isn’t true! Women, farang or otherwise are looking for masterful men – strength shown through kindness – if you come across one of those then let me know – farang or otherwise – they are a rare breed in any nationality! Gentlemen? Come on BB – you farang men don’t have a clue – it’s not about buying a woman a meal out – real strength in a man is hard to find and perhaps when you’re gorging on your steaks at the Landmark or wherever else you spend more than a Thai’s salary on a night out – you might want to ask yourself what you have to offer a woman – apart from that big fat western wallet.

  • July 10, 2008 at 9:09 pm
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    trudie: It may be true that I think I’m brighter than I am, but to call me ‘a bit of a ponce’ is to miss the mark by a wide margin.

    You’re comment may be aimed at a wide audience of farang; mine was aimed directly at the author of the blog (farang_girl) who was actively hoping for the attention of the Western men and complaining that she wasn’t getting it. She clearly craved the attention of the men and was disappointed at not receiving it.

    I get the feeling from your comment that you feel very differently. Good for you.

    I’m puzzled about exactly why you object to my phrase ‘that equation doesn’t compute’ but perhaps I’m just not bright enough to understand. I think the grammar and spelling are okay, and in my mind it rather concisely wraps up the longer preceding paragraph which pointed out that farang_girl doesn’t want to act the same as the Thai women but wants to be treated the same way. 2 + 2 = 5?

  • July 10, 2008 at 10:11 pm
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    sorry but you do write like a ponce. Listen I’m not one of your young Thai girls – I wouldn’t be impressed with your cheap topman suit and I know a ponce when I hear/see one. The comment was aimed at you – not a wide audience at all. The way that you write is the way that someone writes if they are a ponce – I don’t know what else to say.

    You see ‘in my mind it rather concisely wraps up,,,’ words of someone who is not in touch with his real emotions – talks like a robotic text books and by the sounds of it shags young destitute prostitutes in Bangkok.

    I’m sure you’re not upper class – you are probably one of those ponces who thinks he’s one of the lads. The grammar and spelling are ok but words aren’t just about spelling and grammar. Just like women aren’t all about spreading their legs and peeling your prawns.

  • July 11, 2008 at 11:31 am
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    pooying nee born mak mak, la gor put mai po. 🙁

  • July 27, 2008 at 11:02 pm
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    Fellas…why respond. Enjoy what you get in Thailand in any way you can. The opinion of the farang women that you are not in Thailand to see, really is of no consequence. Live your life and feel as big (or as small) as you want. Life is too short to give a hoot!

  • August 8, 2008 at 2:11 am
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    I have been chatted up by thai men aged from 23 – 54yrs old, also by frangs aged from 40-55yrs old. I myself am 55yrs old but am told I look good 4 my age, how should some one of my age look. I am half Dutch & Asian. I have been comming to Thailand 4 13yrs, I have now been divorced & living here 4 18 mnths. I`m 5ft4in & slim I can buy cloths in the stores, I do have a Thai boy friend who works, yes I do pay 4 things but only when we go out.

  • August 14, 2008 at 7:02 pm
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    Wow! Where to start?! I am amazed and impressed that my post has generated so much attention! Thank you to all of you that have posted your comments here…it is good to get feedback and see how some men have interpretted my blog.

    Trudie: Thank you! You are the only woman who spoke up here and you did it with flare! I think you are the only one who really read my article and did not read things into it…like the men did (I don’t expect any glass to be filled by any man…just a little courtesy). We both know that there are many “Billy Bangkok”s, “Werewolf”s, and “Paradox”s here, and that they will never have equal partnerships (they don’t understand the concept of equality).

    Lil Somchai: Khun pen pooying ru phuchaay? Phuuchaay farang phut mai po boi boi, le gaw laay khon mai jing jai.

    Natalie: That is great that you are Thai size and look younger than your actual age. You sound like you are happy with your Thai boyfriend and that it does not bother you that you pay 4 things when you go out. Equality does not always mean 50/50. I have also been chatted up by Thai and farang men……farang men usually thinking they can ask for my phone number after exchanging a few lines on the sidewalk, skytrain, or pub (minimal effort), whereas Thai men will chat the whole night, meet my friends, buy me a rose at the end of the night and shyly ask for my number and then call 30 minutes later to make sure I got home safely. Well, Natalie…if you have a good guy hold on to him because they are hard to find.

    Werewolf and Billy Bangkok: You two think the same so I won’t waste my time addressing you seperately. I imagine you both have selective hearing because you seem to suffer from selective reading as well. My blog post was meant to be an observation of social interactions between farang men and women (Thai and farang). I thought it was funny, interesting, and silly how the farang men (as well as women) behaved at the party. As I was writing the blog I was laughing, not crying over the fact that I can’t get a farang bf. Pleassssssse! I did mention that I felt invisible and undesirable (but I would not be surprised if you guys felt that way in your home countries.) I don’t expect a date from a farang man,just respect and aknowledgement. So I may not be interested in dating you, but I will still be interested in what you have to say…..all i expect is the same courtesy from men. I am not puzzled by the lack of attention I recieve at farang parties…..as mentioned before I am not Thai and I do not look Thai. Maybe this seems shallow, but let us be honest- most farang men just look at the Asian women. I know why this is….they are ‘exotic’ and perhaps subservient (or at least you hope!). I have many Thai friends who would tell you to get lost if you expected them to wait on you hand and foot. Oh and let’s talk about all this equation business…the equation seems ‘so out of whack in the West’. I really don’t know what you are talking about Billy. Women have far more equality in the West and they expect a give and take relationship. Many women in the West want to be financially independent and don’t want a guy paying for everything. Women in the West have fought to stand on their own two feet and they don’t want to be dependent on a man. They seek a relationship built on equality, trust, honesty, respect,and so much more. If a man is deserving of pampering, a Western woman will pamper him. The key word is DESERVING! I think WW you may not be deserving of pampering and that is why no Western woman has ever pampered you. How is the “equation a little more equal” in Thailand? In the past, it was common practice for a man to have 3 wives…maybe more; a major wife, a minor wife, and a slave wife. Up until just recently, a Thai woman was fined if she did not take her husband’s last name and rape was legal within the confinement of marriage. I am puzzled now…where is the equality!? Well, if we put that to the side, the equation that seems to make sense for you guys is pampering + No expectations = perfect relationship.
    Anyhow, I am not going to waste my time anymore addressing “boring”,”predicatable”, and “unattractive” farang men. Looking forward to your replies!

  • August 16, 2008 at 11:25 pm
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    @farang_girl: I never had any expectations that you and I would agree on a topic like this. You are obviously a woman and I am a man. We have different life experiences, different biases, and different prejudices that make us see this sort of topic from entirely different points of view.

    One of those places where we will likely disagree until the end of time is the equality of Western relationships. But, the way I see it, you actually prove my point. You said:

    If a man is deserving of pampering, a Western woman will pamper him. The key word is DESERVING!

    I think people like you and Trudy betray more about your way of viewing the world via your words and tone than you would like to admit. To me, this means you feel a man has to earn your pampering. Pampering is a reward for conforming to a set of rules and expectations.

    And the difference between you and I is that I pamper someone I’m with because it makes me feel good. Obviously I wouldn’t be in the mood to pamper someone I was angry with but when a girlfriend is laying with me on the couch and I give her a foot massage it isn’t because she’s done something to deserve it (though she may have). I do it because I feel good about making her feel good. In a way, it’s entirely selfish. I am getting as much or more enjoyment out of pampering as she is.

    I don’t make up a bunch of rules and expectations and then only when she is deserving does she get my attentions. She gets them because I care for her. She gets them because I feel good when I make her feel good.

    That is the difference between Thai and Farang relationships that I think people like you and Trudie miss. I am not looking for some girl to wait on me hand and foot. I enjoy the fact that she wants to pamper me without all the rules and conditions that farang women want to put on it. In fact, as I said originally, at first it feels really uncomfortable because us farang men are used to the transactional nature of farang relationships and we feel like we’ve done nothing to deserve it. But it makes her feel good to make me feel good and that is why she does it. And guess what? That makes me want to make her just as happy so it ends up being a never ending circle of two people trying to make each other happy. Now contrast that with your typical farang relationship where everything is given grudgingly only after the other person has performed some desired action.

    When I look back on the farang relationships I’ve had over the years, here are some interesting statistics:

    Foot massages given: Too many to count.
    Foot massages received: 1

    Gifts purchased for no particular reason other than I thought she would enjoy it: Hundreds
    Gifts received for no particular reason: 3 (two from the same woman)

    Massages and back rubs given: Hundreds
    Massages and back rubs received: 10

    Are you starting to see the imbalance? And with Thai women it’s either close to even or – I’m embarrassed to say – I owe.

    I think this can be illustrated by a story about a girl I know in Bangkok. We dated but it was never very serious. She had her life and she really wasn’t looking for a long-distance relationship. We enjoyed each other’s company when I was in town and chatted from time to time when I was away.

    I was in BKK on a holiday and we hadn’t really planned on seeing each other on that particular trip. She called and asked if we could grab dinner and so I invited her to come by my hotel and we would go out from there. When she arrived she had a small bouquet of flowers which were a gift for me. I asked her why she was giving me flowers and she said she wanted my room to smell nice.

    Now, I know how much the flowers probably cost and I know what she makes and this was a sizable purchase. I was so touched by the gesture. To this day I stall think back on that and it’s one of the most touching things someone has ever done for me.

    See, the thing you and Trudie don’t get about guys like me is that I don’t date Thai women because they’re submissive or exotic or any of the other stuff you guys attribute to them. I date them because I enjoy the nature of a relationship with a Thai woman. I enjoy the constant cycle of giving and trying to make each other happy.

    I know Trudie fells this way and I suspect you might as well from your tone but I don’t hate farang women. I don’t even dislike them. I simply prefer a relationship with a Thai woman for the reasons I’ve stated. If someone says to you do you want a pizza or a burger it doesn’t mean you hate pizza if you choose the burger.

  • September 11, 2008 at 9:50 pm
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    I think it is great that your article has provoked such emotion!

    BB – alot of the articles on this site are not about choosing pizza over a burger – lovely analogy by the way! – the articles are actually anti-women – both farang and Thai – the general vibe of many of them is that – ‘didn’t you do good mate because you told that stupid bitch where to get off’ ‘or ‘I met this lovely bit of meat…or should that be pizza??!!’

    I am sorry you have had such bad relationships and it has made you bitter against farang women. I know the feeling – after giving so much in relationships and feeling exhausted I also started to think that I was being taken the piss out of by English men but I have had a lot of love too. But when it hurts it hurts – all ways round. But believe me – go and be a farang woman for a while and go out with farang men and you will all be begging forgiveness for your sexist views. I know what you mean about the little things – I remember nearly falling madly in love with a frenchman because he went out and got me croissants on a wet and hung over day in Northern France. I have probably given more too though and women often do – so many women – farang and otherwise – say they have given so much to a man and not got anything back in return. But women love giving to men – when Farang Girl was saying ‘deserving’ what she was probably talking about is respect. Honestly, it is really really simple -what women want is not expensive gifts or to be treated like a princess (this makes many women feel like they are owned – for me personally I would absolutely hate a man buying me something expensive – good job too because it has never happened)- they want exactly what you got BB – someone who cares to put flowers in their room or a gesture of kindness. I have not met that many women who have had this experience with a man. My man used to say ‘I thought about buying you xxx today’ – do you know what? that was enough for me. He never did seem to get round to buying me anything but the fact that he’d thought about it and told me he’d thought about it was somehow enough!! I adored him. We’re not demanding bitches but we’re not doormats either….and not saying Thai women are before you jump on that – quite the reverse – many of the Asian women are so ‘over men’ – they are focused on careers and many bar girls see men as a means to an end.

    Farang girl thanks for your support. I don’t know about you though but do you not find that the Thai men are really interested in us? They love farang women. I get a bit embarrassed about it in a way – I’m just not used to being stared at like I’m Miss World or something. It is refreshing though and a much needed ego stroke in a city where you can see the words pussy’ in 8ft neon! I met quite a pleasant looking non-Thai and non-farang man the other day and what really struck me here was that many of the men who are used to the bar girl scene are literally incapable of having a normal conversation with a woman. I said something friendly as we were in a mixed crowd and he’d just joined and he was completely lost for words. I left not long afterwards to go and have fun and he looked so depressed – eyeing up 8 scantily clad girls swinging on a podium. I actually felt sorry for him. Do you not think that many of these farang guys look a bit lonely? I’m not being sarcastic – I am aware it might read like this – but I do think it is a bit of a shame. They are so desperate and they just want love, like the rest of us but maybe they are looking down the wrong soi.

    I think all you men should go off with Thai women – they are lovely and beautiful – but don’t knock other women – we have something to give too. We are just as confused and disappointed with these so called hidden rules as men are. A lot of British men don’t measure up to men from the USA if you are looking at how they treat women but on the other hand you just can’t beat an English man for his personality and humour – they hands down beat every other nationality as far as I’m concerned. Some of the men who have been going out with these pistol-whipping western women might want to ask themselves what they have been giving out to the world to attract women like this. When I was feeling particularly low about men a few years ago I kept attracting completely inappropriate men (arseholes to put it bluntly) – it was only when my self-esteem became higher that they seemed to fade away – yes there are loads of angry, bossy old bints in the western world and loads of complete and utter tossers who threaten women and treat them like scum -we’ve all met them but farang girl and myself aren’t treating all farang men as if they are all the same so once you’ve managed to quell the raging torrent of your super-sized egos perhaps some of you on here could show the same respect? That also works both ways.

  • September 19, 2008 at 4:15 pm
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    I love my life!

  • September 22, 2008 at 3:19 am
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    Well, I’m a (fairly) young male farang who has been living/working in Bangkok for 2 years, and I agree with most of what farang_girl has been saying. This might be because I don’t meet the demographic or “mind-set” of most farang men here in Thailand.

    And really, most Thai girls here bore me to tears (and I’ve never dated a bargirl, never been interested in or had to join that scene). There are many stunning and attractive Thai women here, but when it comes to really “talking” with one of them, good god – I want t run to the nearest emergency exit! The Thai women who I do enjoy being aorund have largely studied and/or lived in the West for a good sum of years, and know how to think on their “own two feet”, which is something I’ve learned to appreciate more than anything in a Thai woman here. And I really enjoy their perspective on things. Farang_girl, I would have definitely had a chat with you at that dinner party, although farang parties in general (and of what seems to be your generation), are not really “my scene”!

  • September 22, 2008 at 3:40 am
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    “At a dinner with a Thai woman, she will filet my fish, peel my shrimp, put fresh ice in my glass and and make sure that I am content.”

    Perhaps I will learn to appreciate this with age – I find it rather annoying when a Thai woman does this, and then just stares at me blankly awaiting for an order/conversation …

    And I dont mean to sounds like Im bashing Thai women – I adore Thai women, they are utterly beautiful in their own way. It’s just some things that I find blaringly lacking in most of them that turns me off a bit.

  • September 23, 2008 at 3:16 pm
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    Trudie,

    First off, I was just trying to find an example where picking one thing does not preclude you from liking the other. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    You know, it’s funny that you’re so good at rooting out pizza and hamburger innocent comparisons and turning them into sexist remarks but you fail to realize how offensive farang_girl’s remarks were to Thai women. For instance, she says:

    However, in my post I was referring to the “giggly thai girls” that farang men will often gravitate towards instead of entertaining a conversation with farang women. Is intelligence really the ability to pretend to agree with everything a guy says and giggle all the time? If so the Thai women can have all the farang men because I won’t play stupid.

    Now pretend a guy had made the same comment about Thai women. Worse, what if he were making equally as sweeping comments about farang women? Yikes, isn’t that what you’ve been making post after post about?

    I mean, are there really only two options? Giggly Thai girls and entertaining, intelligent farang women? Or is this really saying that all her Thai friends are witty, intelligent Thais but the girls who get the farang men are the stupid type? Come on Trudy, even you talk about the farang/Thai relationships that are based on love so obviously not every guy is out there looking for the stupid, giggly girls. And if she wasn’t talking to many of the other women at the party how does she know what type of girl the Thai was who swiveled her hips in his direction was?

    I mean, I could go line by line in her post at point out how silly some of the things she said seem. For example:

    Before I could even sit down she told me she couldn’t even entice a smile out of the farang women or a glance from a man (all of them being farang). I laughed to myself; not only are we invisible to farang men, but we are snubbed by farang women.

    So, why is this about men then? What part of the story aren’t we hearing that even though she said earlier that groups of farang women were talking together they’re being snubbed by those other women?

    BB

  • October 6, 2008 at 3:41 am
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    Get a grip BB. It is really really simple. Not all, but some Western men, like the ones who have posts on here – talk about women as if they are pieces of shit. They seem to dislike women – farang and otherwise. Talk to some Thai women and hear what they have to say about the whole Thai women using farang men for money and farang men using Thai women for arm candy and sex. They are far more critical believe me. They take the piss out of the men and think the women are cheap. We can all analyse but the reality is there to see – loads of Thai women looking bored shitless with some older farang men. I personally wouldn’t want that in my life but each to their own. What I do find offensive which you can’t seem to understand is why men talking about women like they’re pieces of meat isn’t at all upsetting for any woman. Jordan shines out as so normal against a lot of you on here…not because he doesn’t like Thai women in a sexual way…but because he appreciates Western women. I think that you are so indoctrinated and brainwashed by Bangkok a lot of you men that you can’t see just how damaging it is to our perceptions of each other. Yes, a lot of Thai women do look down on other Thai women if they have a farang boyfriend/husband. I don’t look down on it at all. But I do think you should treat all women with respect and there is a bit of blindness with these men. For myself, I would hate to have someone sharing my life who didn’t love me for who I was and which ever way you turn, unless you just don’t want to believe it, the majority of couples I see out and about do involve using. What many of the farang guys don’t see and I see a lot is that when his back is turned the real face of his girl comes out – off comes the smile and the look of feeling eternally trapped and bored comes over their face – man turns back and back comes the smile and the flirt. I reckon some of these men have no idea. I’ve get flirted with by Thai men all the time – and yes, they probably do think I’m attractive but I also know that they are probably players, probably wanting my money and probably have a girlfriend/wife/baby and lets face it often all three.

    Yes there are genuine relationships…yes, there are loads of men who are being used and loads of Thai women being used….yes, there are bad attitudes about women on here from men and yes, farang women possibly do find it tough in Bangkok. I personally have met quite a lot of farang men who are interested in me believe it or not but actually what I’ve found is that the ones who have lived in Asia for a while have literally lost the ability to chat – they either talk in some strange broken english or just talk at you as if you don’t have anything to say and because they know they can sort of get so many Thai girls they really don’t behave how I like a man to behave. Never in England have I been out with a man and seen his eyes roaming over a woman who walks past – but here – oh yes indeedy. Listen, I look at a hot man but do you know what…call me old fashioned but I don’t tend to do it when the person I’m having a drink with is talking – it’s just rude. You farang men out here have lost your manners…big big turn off. Personally I’d rather have a drink with Jordan and Farang Girl any time – at least we’d have a laugh and act normal. Iif life’s too short to stuff a mushroom it’s certainly too short to peel a fat white farang’s prawn! no pun intended!!!

  • September 4, 2009 at 1:11 am
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    farang_girl admits having been snubbed by farang women also, as well as having been under-dress at the party she was in. My guess is that she’s ugly, and fat, I mean ’bout 70 kg or somethin’. Is it right, farang-girl, are you too fat to dress elegantly?

  • September 4, 2009 at 10:16 pm
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    I am really wondering if I should even take the time to respond to Katechon’s post…..she has obviously missed the whole point; I think she would go perfectly with some of the men here. As far as being too fat too dress elegantly, the last time I checked 50 kg was not fat….and perhaps, I was over-dressed, as I wasn’t showing any skin…..that is what tends to attract the male eye. Well, Katechon good luck finding friends with your attitude …must be going….I have a date tonight!

  • September 5, 2009 at 12:53 am
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    Yawn.. these kind of threads bore me to death. Listen, farang_girl, most of us men learned some time growing up that if we didn’t get girls we would have to change, to be ‘cooler’ (whatever that meant at the time), work out, earn enough for a bus pass, you get the idea. Survival of the fittest honey.

    If you don’t like what the world is giving you, there are two choices. Change yourself or change the world. Good luck with the latter.

    I am a young, decent looking guy, with an narcisistic personality bordering on jerk and I get more action in the West. I can get a woman every night of the week if I want (I told you I was a sexist jerk already). That doesn’t fly in Thailand. Politeness and common courtesy as I think you put, actually matters here. Many guys in Thailand are nice guys, soft spoken and well mannered. Exactly the kind of guy you have snubbed over and over in the West to run off with me after I punched you in the arm and acted aloof. Why would these guys want to date you here?

    Young western women don’t have to much of an idea of what a real man is, so they just go for guys showing ANY kind of dominance.

    How did your date go?

  • Pingback:Dispelling the Can’t Get Laid at Home Myth

  • September 14, 2009 at 3:01 pm
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    Good point Jack.

    To the white girls, can’t handle the heat, get out of the thai kitchen.

  • September 22, 2009 at 5:35 am
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    Why are you surprised?

    Farang guys in Thailand are a self-selected bunch – why do you think they choose to leave home and live in Thailand? These guys are into Asian girls – they don’t represent farang men as a whole, in fact they are a tiny sliver of farang guys as a whole who generally are not interested in Asian girls, and if it is any kind of comfort, they are mostly sexually low-quality men who have little ability to get hot farang girls in their home countries. That’s why they are in Thailand. This should really be obvious by now.

    It’s also possible you are just not hot. I’m in Thailand for work but like most farang guys who can get them, I prefer hot farang girls, and I ALWAYS notice a hot farang girl in Thailand. There are just so few of them, bordering on zero. For some reason attractive farang women stay home.

  • September 23, 2009 at 5:47 am
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    Haha..

    “…they are mostly sexually low-quality men who have little ability to get hot farang girls in their home countries…”

    The key being “hot” here, George! I don’t know what your criteria is for hot, but if you like slim, feminine women (and dont give a crap about silicone tits or tramp stamps), then I’m sure you agree there’s A LOT more of them in Thailand.

  • September 23, 2009 at 9:13 am
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    Jack,

    Actually I wouldn’t. I like slim feminine women, and I find women in some Western countries much hotter than Thai women. The key is in “some” Western countries.

    The women in Spain or Denmark or Sweden, for instance, are slim and have finely sculpted facial features that would be the envy of almost any Thai woman (and Scandinavian women are actually not very tall and not all that blond, contrary to popular myth. Dutch women are tall and blond and sadly masculine). It is true that women in London, for instance, are rather lacking in the femininity and beauty department, but then the “anglosphere” is not the entire West and I would even argue that Anglo-Saxon countries tend to have the least attractive and least feminine women in the entire Western world, so one musn’t judge based on what’s found in London.

    That being said, the top 30% of women in New York beat anything to be found in Bangkok – if you can get them. For the guys who can’t, I don’t blame them for preferring Thailand. But that was my original point anyways.

  • September 23, 2009 at 6:01 pm
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    @George: I agree that Thailand is self-selecting. Yes, most of the guys who are here are into Asian women.

    On the other hand, I disagree with you on the top 30% statement. There are some very, very beautiful Thai women so to say that the top 30% in NYC would beat ANYTHING to be found in Bangkok.

  • September 24, 2009 at 4:46 am
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    @Ruai – I guess it really is a matter of taste. While I agree with you that some Thai women are strikingly beautiful, for me Caucasian facial features with their high definition and finely sculptured cast represent the ultimate in female facial beauty. While some Thai women come close, you can’t really get the real thing in Thailand, or anywhere in Asia. That being said, many Thai girls are quite beautiful.

  • September 24, 2009 at 5:09 pm
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    @George: I had a feeling that that is what it comes down to. For me, I’m sort of just the opposite. I’ve never been overly-into the blond hair / blue eyes thing (though I dated four or five women in a row who fit that description lol). I’ve always liked dark hair, darker skin, etc. In fact, back home I used to mostly date Latina women and Asians.

    I’m not into the full Isaan look though. I like the taller Bangkok girl look. I’m a little torn on the whole white-skin thing but many Thainese girls still have a nice brown glow to them.

    Of course, that’s all just on looks alone. There are certain physical attributes that each guy likes or doesn’t like. Same with women.

  • September 25, 2009 at 12:15 pm
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    bottom line is u like what u can get, u don’t like what u can’t get (haha, too long in LOS makes me buddhist). I like being able to snap my fingers and land a bird on my knees. Hasn’t worked well with them blond birds!! better luck with the dark hair.

  • October 31, 2009 at 3:37 am
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    I like farang women in LOS, provided that they’re not drunk and/or obnoxious. Every 30 or so Asian girls I just have to have a white chick. I really start to crave them. Go figure.

  • November 3, 2009 at 11:58 am
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    Soidog,

    Am actually on the other side, I just can’t seem to find any attraction in farang (white) girls whatsoever in BKK, nada, zilch. There is just no appeal or pulse there.

  • November 7, 2009 at 10:46 pm
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    I have come to the conclusion after having numerous doors shut in my face, lift doors closed on me and generally being looked at like a piece of shit by farang men that because I don’t weigh 80 pounds have slanty eyes or sell my fanny in soi cowboy that I am not even worthy of politeness from a farang male. Mind you I suppose if you spend most of your time in the company of whores you probably don’t have to think about manners.

  • November 7, 2009 at 11:27 pm
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    @Sara: I’m trying to get a read on your pov. So you’re saying that in Thailand you get treated like farang men treat other farang men and some farang women back home? I mean, I had lift doors closed on me back home. Sometimes by women. I’ve also had doors shut in my face back home. I’ve had women look at me like I was a piece of garbage simply for having the audacity to smile and say hello.

    So really what you’re saying is that you know how farang men feel back home. Congrats on finally seeing the world from our pov. Pretty shitty feeling, huh?

    Oh, and only a small percentage of women sell themselves. The rest are regular gals with regular jobs who also happen to be polite and ladylike – two qualities that far too many farang women lost a generation or two ago.

    You have to understand how brutal dating can be back home. You complain about not getting any attention but at least people don’t tell you to go fuck yourself just for saying hello.

  • November 8, 2009 at 8:48 am
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    Ruai, my point was that many farang men seem to have lost their manners and ability to communicate with white women after being in Thailand for a certain amount of time. I would consider myself polite and ladylike (i’m not a fat, pint guzzling farang chick with a mouth like a sailor) I find women who try to act like “one of the boys” very uncouth. When I am in a lift and I see someone approaching just as the doors are about to close I hold the door, it’s good manners. I agree that in any country there are ignorant people but farang men in particular seem to have resorted back to the ways of the neanderthal. You sound like you’ve had some bad experiences with women in your own country,I had some shit relationships at home too but thats the way of the world, it annoys me when I hear farang men always going on about how Thai women are so much better than white women, no race is better than another we’re just different. Farang men seem to be intent on slagging off farang women and I can only put this down to the fact that they’ve been fucked over by a woman at home but how many have lost everything to a woman out here? A fair few I would say, also according to farang men all farang women are fat and ugly explain to me then why the recent poll of FHM’s sexiest women in the world are all farang there’s not one Thai chick in the running.

  • November 8, 2009 at 2:07 pm
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    @Sara: Yes, a lot of guys have had bad experiences back home. You do realize that on average, most guys over here have been through a divorce back home. So it’s a little funny when you ask how many guys have been taken for everything they have since most of them already have back home. A farang divorce is about as close to having everything you own taken from you as you can get because not only do you lose everything but you have to keep paying even after you’re finished.

    Personally I’ve never been married/divorced so don’t dismiss my comments as the bitter ramblings of someone stung by alimony payments. But I have watched people close to me financially ruined by divorce so I can understand their frustration.

    Personally I try not to slag off farang women. I just happen to be attracted to Asian women. Even when I’m home most of the women I date are Asian. But I do understand your point about guys who slag off farang women. On the other hand you should try to understand why guys are so bitter. Whether it be the legal system (divorce laws, etc) or just the treatment one receives on a daily basis the cold hard truth is that men feel like they’re getting shafted. That’s why you experience this hostility. Guys come to Thailand and realize that they can be treated respectfully and the stark contrast to their life back home makes them even more bitter that they ever put up with that treatment.

    It really doesn’t matter what a poll FHM says. Most of the guys voting know that they’ll never have a shot anyway. They also choose to keep playing farang rules by staying in the UK or US. It’s like asking them to vote on the best car. Sure, they all vote Ferrari but that doesn’t make Ferrari the best selling car.

    Most of the people voting actually are making a buying decision between a Toyota pickup truck and a Nissan pickup truck.

  • November 8, 2009 at 7:43 pm
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    My point is that for guys to say ALL farang women are fat and ugly and ALL Thai women are beautiful is bullshit. These comments are usually made by the men I see walking around with a skanky looking Thai bird who has a face full of acne and could do with being put in a bath with a bottle of dettol and a wire brush. Last time I checked looking like you need a good scrub and having a face like a pizza were not attractive in any culture! Maybe if these men pulled themselves out of the chang induced fog that they permanently walk around in and took a good look at their Thai “beauty” when they woke up in the morning they wouldn’t be so quick to bump their gums about women of other races. Nuff said.

  • April 1, 2010 at 12:33 am
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    I went to the Ford dealer and completely ignored the used Chevy truck someone had traded in. Sure it was on the lot. It was a nice Chevy at that but I was there at the Ford dealer looking for a FORD not a chevy. That Silverado shot me a dirty look as I test drove my new Ford Expedition but I didn’t go all the way over there even having a Chevy in mind. Sorry Chevy. I’m a FORD kinda man. Get it?

    JJ

  • April 1, 2010 at 7:17 am
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    Simple law of supply and demand. Western women have been steadily lifting their prices amid the emancipation since the Second World War. Eventally they will price themselves out of the market. For the less attractive western women who are closer to the bottom of the pecking order, this has already happened. Right now, western men at the bottom of the barrel are discovering the buyer’s market in the east, having been among the first to be sidelined by the high prices in the west. Attractive western women can still command a high price, but the unattractive ones are feeling the pinch – lashing out spitefully, as they do here, while their lost generation of men revel in the choice pickings to be found in the rich new markets in the east. Soon the middle layer of men will be pushed out too, and gravitate to the east. In fact, I see this happening even now…when perfectly respectable asian women and western men are naturally selecting each other on much more equal terms. Soon the middle-of-the-road western women will have to tighten their belts, adapt to the tougher competition…and lower their prices.
    Meantime, asian women will begin to realise their value as more and better-quality western men seek them out. Prices here will start to rise. For a time, somewhere in the future, some kind of equilibrium between east and west will reign. But eventually, eastern women will start to become too expensive as they overassert their value. The cycle will start again.
    In the meantime, life is pretty tough here if you’re white, unattractive and ill-mannered.

  • May 13, 2010 at 1:42 am
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    maybe you are getting somewhat of a feel for what it is like being a Black female in the States? i don’t know your nationality, American here. I am in no way trying to insult White women, but in our society, many people assume the white woman is nicer, in better shape, knows how to treat a man, and we are even told that by some black men. the western standard of beauty is also in effect here. Someone mentioned peeling shrimp and cutting fish for their man at a resto, i do all of that, i love pampering and spoiling a man, i am just a nurturer, and i expect to be loved in return, but the stereotypes certainly don’t help about BW as a whole.

  • May 13, 2010 at 8:56 am
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    Tia I am a black man and I live in Bangkok things are hard here for me socially but what you just said about black women is not 100% true. Maybe I am just ugly but no black woman back home would ever talk to me they had no intrest at all I didnt do well with women in general but at least white women were friendly to me.

  • October 4, 2010 at 4:55 pm
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    @Jordan.. i do agreed with you most everything you said and it so funny that you make comment about how Thai girl like to do things for their partner or boyfriend .. trust me one thing as i am Thai.. i would like to speak on behalf of Thai woman.. we not only do for man we do for all .. i mean even my Thai girl friend .. coz we been brought up to taking care the whole family and .. i don’t see that before as my girlfriend used to do a lot things for me and help me take bone out from my fish .. i never thought about it. when she doing that .. i didn’t realised that until now it in our blood to taking care other even i am living outside Thailand i still do that .. that why some friend told me that you can take woman out from Thailand but you can’t take Thailand out from her 😉

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