Dispelling the Can’t Get Laid at Home Myth

Recently in a thread called “Am I Invisible” a commenter named Jack made the following addition to the thread:

I am a young, decent looking guy, with an narcisistic personality bordering on jerk and I get more action in the West. I can get a woman every night of the week if I want (I told you I was a sexist jerk already). That doesn’t fly in Thailand. Politeness and common courtesy as I think you put, actually matters here. Many guys in Thailand are nice guys, soft spoken and well mannered. Exactly the kind of guy you have snubbed over and over in the West to run off with me after I punched you in the arm and acted aloof. Why would these guys want to date you here?

It took me aback for a bit because I think it finally needs to be said that many of the guys taking in the girls (prostitutes or normal girls) aren’t all the stereotypical fat, balding, old, losers who can’t get laid back home. I have many friends here in Bangkok that I know would have no problem getting dates or sex back home. They’re attractive, young (20’s and 30’s), educated, and make decent cash both here and back home. So why do they come to Thailand where the line between prostitution and a relationship is often so blurred it’s hard to tell the difference?

In a recent article in the Times Online titled “Who pays for sex? You’d be surprised” where the author, Clare Spurrell, discusses the fact that the number of men who admit using the services of prostitutes has risen from 5.6% in 1990 to 9% in 2000. Spurrell hypothesizes that the pure numbers means she probably knows people in her circle of respectable friends who use the services of hookers and goes about trying to shake it out of them.

Spurrell notes:

The stereotypical “John” who uses prostitutes is a middle-aged, empty soul whom you might spot slinking around red-light districts in an outsized mac and stained trousers. The uncomfortable truth, though, is that most men who pay for sex are just “regular guys” — colleagues, brothers, fathers, sons and lovers.

She goes on to say:

It is difficult for a woman to understand what it is that a prostitute can offer these perfectly attractive men that a free sexual encounter — be it a one-night-stand or in a relationship — cannot. In an age when women are more sexually liberated and “strings-free” sex is a greater possibility than it ever was before, why are more and more young men choosing sex with a pro?

Disconcertingly, the men to whom I spoke suggested that lack of any emotional obligation is one of the most appealing attributes of paying for sex.

An article in the NY Daily News says something very similar:

David is a good-looking guy. He comes in at a little under 6 feet. Brown hair, brown eyes, good dresser. He owns his apartment downtown, has an Ivy League degree and a Hamptons summer share. And he opts to pay for a professional at least once a month.

“You eliminate all the bull you have to deal with when you order a hooker,” he explains. “You want to chill with your friends all night and still [have sex]. Plus it’s fun knowing when someone knocks on your door that they are going to be hot and want to have sex with you and then they’ll leave.”

Anyway, no matter how cute David is, there are girls he would never be able to take home no matter how many martinis he buys them.

“I’m a preppy guy. I could never take home a girl who was all edgy. She would take one look and laugh at me. I can break out of my mold with a prostitute. A girl with a bunch of tattoos would never talk to me unless I were paying her. Variety is sweet.”

And a prostitute won’t balk at some of your kinkiest propositions.

“With a pro, you can do pretty much whatever you want … for the right price,” says Nick, a 28-year-old medical researcher who has visited prostitutes around seven or eight times, always in other countries.

“You don’t pay them for the sex, you pay them to leave” – Charlie Sheen

The more I searched around on the internet for different perspectives on this issue I kept running across articles like the two above. Nice, normal guys who simply prefer the convenience. And many of the authors of these pieces are women who admit that the men they’re interviewing are generally good looking guys who you wouldn’t think would have to pay for sex. But that’s the point they don’t need to. They choose to.

If one were to look at some recent and not so recent headlines it starts to become rather obvious that all men who use the services of prostitutes are not fat, ugly, balding, old men who couldn’t otherwise get laid. Hugh Grant is the poster boy for the argument that even good looking guys like to get laid with no strings attached. Charlie Sheen (quoted above) is another example of a powerful male who could have just about any woman he wants who was well-known to have a nearly endless string of prostitutes coming through the doors of his Malibu mansion. Throw in all of the other film/television stars, footballers, and politicians and the myth starts to shatter.

Of course, I’ll readily admit that not every guy I’ve seen walking out of Nana is Hugh Grant. On the other hand, I do see more and more guys in their 20’s and 30’s stumbling out of Nana or Cowboy with a young Thai girl attached to their arm. Enough that I think it’s time to put the myth to rest.

But why did the myth exist in the first place? In some ways it’s sort of like a price-fixing scheme or a labor union dispute. Women are in a much better bargaining position if there is no alternative (think monopolies or union workers terrorizing people willing to cross the picket lines during a strike). That’s why housewives and “proper” women have always been so quick to label their sisters sluts, whores, and other derogatory names if they started undercutting the market. It helps keep the supply of easy to get sex regulated thus forcing men to negotiate for sex on women’s terms.

But as the Times Online article suggest men frequenting prostitutes is increasing despite all the best efforts of women to demonize both the men who visit prostitutes as well as the prostitutes themselves. More recently women have realized the error in this frontal assault and now wave the banner of forced prostitution, human trafficking, and enslavement. Like this post by supposed prostitution expert Suki Falconberg claims that:

I notice that during this 2005 six-month deployment of the Nimitz which PBS filmed, the ship docked in Thailand. When our navy visits this country, they dock off of Pattaya, a prostitution city created for the military. About a third of the girls trafficked to meet the sailors´ sexual needs are underage. Numerous eyewitnesses have told me that the first thing the U.S. sailors do, when they hop off the boats that ferry them in, is head straight for the sex-for-sale enslaved girls. Why didn´t the film crew document the men going with prostituted, enslaved women and girls and girl children in Pattaya? (My sources are military men themselves who have told me about what the fleet does in Thailand.)

First off, anybody who knows anything about Thailand in general or Pattaya specifically knows this is 100% bullshit. It’s preposterous to even claim that a third of the women working Pattaya are underage. And even of the small amount that are underage they aren’t marketed as underage. In fact, they’re marketed as being 18+ years old. And even vocal critics of prostitution in Thailand such as Asian Sweetheart laughed at the suggestion that any of the girls in Pattaya were enslaved.

But much like the myth that all men who visit prostitutes are old, ugly, far, balding men who couldn’t get laid without paying for it, this myth too only survives by repetition without any sort of inspection of the facts. Think about how one-sided the fight against both of these myths are. They’re so emotionally charged that logic, facts, and reasoning go out the window. This so-called expert Falconberg commonly uses the word “rape” to describe prostitution. By her definition all paid sex is a form of rape. You can’t argue logically with people who resort to such rhetoric so the lies keep getting put forward as fact and people avoid exposing the lies for fear of being dragged into a fight they cannot win with facts.

But make no mistake about it; these myths exist to serve a purpose. They’re self-serving myths. Even the men who look down on other men are simply doing so so they can put themselves forward as being above resorting to having to pay for sex.

And you see this same self-serving myth creation today as more and more farang women come here to work or get posted here as part of their jobs. Now, just walking down the street with your girlfriend is seen as being disgusting. It’s obvious to them that she’s only with you for your money and you’re only with her because she’s a prostitute. Go ahead look around the web for any forum that discusses relationships with Thai women and sooner or later a farang woman will jump in to accuse every man who has ever walked down the street holding his tirak’s hand that they’re a disgusting pervert preying on Thai women and she’s a prostitute only with your fat, old, ugly, can’t get laid back home ass because of money.

These accusations come out of the same self-serving motivation to narrow the market in their favor. If they can convince enough men that only a farang/farang relationship if valid or is more desirable then who gets the most benefit from that? And not surprisingly, whenever these women mention that they have female Thai friends those friends always seem to be of the opinion that us male farangs are pathetic.

Talk to some Thai women and hear what they have to say about the whole Thai women using farang men for money and farang men using Thai women for arm candy and sex. They are far more critical believe me. They take the piss out of the men and think the women are cheap. — Trudie in the Am I Invisible thread

Well, I do talk to Thai women. I have tons of Thai female friends. And while the 19 year old Nana hooker hanging out with a 90 year old guy pushing his oxygen bottle does get them yapping negatively about farangs for the most part they see nothing wrong with Thai/farang relationships. But my friends must be whores too, right? Hmmm . . . well, I can’t run down the qualification of every single friend I have but most have at least a bachelors degree. Several have completed a post-grad program. Several have been educated in the west or in Singapore. And few if any of them thinks like that or has ever spoken poorly about other Thais for dating farang men – even older farang men. I would guesstimate that nearly all the “normal” Thai women I know wouldn’t think twice about dating a guy up to the age of about 45 or 50. And most of those friends are 24 – 34 years of age. In fact, many of them went the young, dashing, good looking guy route, got cheated on, and now strictly only date older guys.

Granted, it’s not a big love-fest amongst the Thai women. I have seen some Thai racism whereby dark skinned girls are ranked below lighter skinned Thaineese girls but that’s all about Thai hierarchy and has nothing to do with which farangs they date or don’t date. A girl isn’t considered to be a prostitute based on the shade of her skin but it does impact how she ranks against other Thais in social settings. Thailand is still a caste type society so it’s all about where you are on the societal ladder.

The closest to that attitude Trudie describes that I’ve ever personally experienced is a very hi-so Thai girl I knew from back home who would always cringe when I showed her photos with obviously not hi-so Thai girls. But it had nothing to do with arm candy because she was constantly trying to fix me up with hi-so arm candy.

But what’s the message Trudie and other farang women are trying to sell? “Quit chasing that young, fit, bubbly spirited Thai girl and come back to us proper farang women. You’re making fools of yourself being seen with hot women. ” Rather self-serving isn’t it? I mean, Trudie and others like her are always quick to tell you that they would never date you in a kazillion years so why do they care if I’m with a Thai woman? Why do they insist on trolling the internet telling us what pathetic losers we are? Why is she so quick to pass judgment on us simply based on her observation of us walking down the street with a Thai girl she thinks is out of our league?

All of these myths serve the single purpose of maintaining the pussy monopoly farang women have finally established in the west. They’re all attempts to shame men into returning to the game where they make all of the rules. Look at this comment from farang_girl:

Is intelligence really the ability to pretend to agree with everything a guy says and giggle all the time? If so the Thai women can have all the farang men because I won’t play stupid. I am not going to change myself to get a guy; i’d rather be single.

Obviously she doesn’t want the Thai women to have all of the farang men because the entire topic of her post was complaining about the fact that the Thai women captured all of the attention of the farang men and left her with an empty imaginary wine glass that no farang offered to come over and fill for her like they normally would be falling over themselves to do back home.

See farang_girl doesn’t want to change. Even though she’s in a foreign country, with a totally different culture, and where women outnumber men, she still wants to sit back on the couch at a party and wait for men to approach her. It makes her angry that Thai women are willing to chase after the guys. Of course she’s angry. These Thai bitches are making her work for something that used to come easily to her. She doesn’t want the competition.

Yet, let’s look at one of the key phrases:

Is intelligence really the ability to pretend to agree with everything a guy says and giggle all the time?

Yeah, because guys never have to pretend what women is saying is interesting or funny. No. Never.

Here’s another Bitter Betty who goes by the name of GMA:

Most of the farang man who are coming to Thailand are looking to escape of the harsh reality life and make themselves feel confortable… and they found the pefect match, Thai gogo bars girls who rip them off by kissing their ass… there is nothing about beauty here… look around … tell me how many Thai beautiful girls you can see on the streets ? Very few of the farang man are lucky enough to find the right one and exactly as you said . The good Thai girls will not look at a friky fat farang pig who is just looking for sex.. ( which most of the farangs do anyway), as back home no one give a damn shit on them because they are looses but here they are considered interesting for what they can provide.

Again, according to GMA no Thai girl would ever go with a guy unless it was for money and most of us are “friky fat farang pig just looking for sex.” There is so much bitterness and anger that Thai women treat us well. And as discussed earlier here is another example of the claim that no proper Thai woman would ever go out with us thus the only women who would date us are defacto whores.

To some degree I think GMA’s comments are funny because she lost her husband to a Thai woman (which explains a lot of the bitterness and anger). So if most of us are “friky fat farang pig just looking for sex” then so is/was her husband. What does it say about her that she was married to him in the first place? The most obvious conclusion is that when he had to play by western rules and was the one kissing her ass she was quite fine with that arrangement. When they moved to Thailand and this new world of availability was opened before him he suddenly became a “friky fat farang pig just looking for sex.”

Funny how that works, isn’t it?

And even if all of this crap was even true, why are farang women so angry about it? If I’m such a loser, fat, balding, old man then what concern is it to GMA, Trudie, or farang_girl if I just want to have sex with women who are only after me because of my money? Why should they care if I define intelligence as the ability to giggle at all my jokes?

They shouldn’t care. The fact that they they can’t write about the topic without their comments dripping in seething hatred and contempt essentially proves that this isn’t about the choices we make as farang men but how our choices impact farang women’s reality. They don’t want to have to compete with Thai women because in most areas Thai women are exactly what most farang men have been looking for.

When all is said and done, all these myths are are an attempt by farang women to put the genie back in the bottle. Sure those Thai women are pretty, lady-like, and enjoy taking care of their partner . . . but, they’re all whores after you just because of your money. Run! You don’t deserve a woman like that because you’re too fat. You’re too old. You’re too much of a loser. Remember, you could never get a woman like that back home and home is the only reality. So quit acting like a pervert with your young, attractive, slim, well mannered Thai girl and snap back to reality where girls like that tell you to “fuck off” for even approaching them. Wake up, wake up, wake up!

Nah. If this is all just a dream then let me sleep.

11 thoughts on “Dispelling the Can’t Get Laid at Home Myth

  • September 20, 2009 at 4:58 pm
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    Good article, and pretty damn funny too! As wonderful as Thailand is for the single male in the dating arena, its an absolute nightmare for the single female. So its not surprising that single white women in Thailand get all bitter and wound-up at being ignored. Have some sympathy for ’em!

  • September 22, 2009 at 5:59 am
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    Dude, it’s not a myth and it isn’t open to being dispelled.

    Having spent much time in Thailand I would say roughly 95% of Western males living here simply are not successful with women in their own countries – that’s why they are here, that’s why they love Thai women.

    Unlike what you claim in your article, you simply don’t see nice looking young guys here who would have no problems getting women in their own countries. Quite the opposite.

    Think about it for a moment – a mans ability to attract a woman is well known t be strongly dependent on his social status and social prestige. It’s a well known fact in social science circles that when a man travels to another culture and society, one, his ability to convey his social status is harmed because of cultural differences, and two, his actual social status actually falls (it takes a lifetime to build social connections and establish social credibility).

    Not only is this some kind of abstract theory, it’s a well known fact in the farang ex-pat community – and sometimes a source of (irrational) bitching and moaning – that the best looking Thai girls are really hard to get for farang guys, at least those not well connected with high status Thai male friends (that really helps a lot).

    The implications for this are obvious. For a farang guy who can get hot women in his own country, what possible incentive would there be for him to go to a country where it is at least much harder for him to get the best looking women because of his lack of social credibility? Why go to a place where your sexual status is damaged and your social prestige and cred lower?

    The answer is as as obvious as the question. Only guys who CAN’T get hot women in their own countries will experience an increase in his status in Thailand. Yes, it is true that less attractive Thai girls are all over farang guys – but this situation is only appealing to those who find it extremely hard to get attractive girls in their own countries.

    I used to think that farang men in Thailand were mostly financial losers or social wierdos, and while Thailand is full of these types as well, I now realize after extensive experience that the number one distinguishing characteristic of farang men in Thailand is low self esteem. Western men in Thailand are the typical “loser” type who has little confidence with women and who has little self confidence in life. Thailand selects for these types of Western men, which is why you hear so many stories of men being pushed around by Thai women, etc.

    What is amusing and sad is the periodic need by some in Thailand to deny what is so blatantly obvious. Why not just admit that the typical Western man in Thailand is the typical low confidence not good with women loser? He might occasionally be good looking and occasionally be wealthy, but he isn’t an alpha type personality. There is nothing necessarily shameful about this, and the fact that Thailand gives men of this stripe an opportunity to reinvent themselves in some measure is all to the good. I think everyone would be better served if this was admitted to openly and honestly.

    But then, is it in human nature to admit that one is a loser and that one has joined a community of losers?

  • September 23, 2009 at 6:20 am
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    George,

    You’re way of mark. I feel you need a little introduction to social dynamics and the change in the way social dynamics work in the west.

    Let’s get some definitions out of the way first: The Alpha Male

    The alpha male is a term borrowed from the animal kingdom where it exclusively is used to describe the physically strongest and most aggressive male. It’s not the male with the most social clout or who finds the most bananas (though he would take them from a lesser male), such as those seen among apes, that’s the Beta male. In fact, the Alpha male in the animal kingdom couldn’t care less about social hierachies or connections. If someone challenges him, he smacks them upside the head and goes on to mate with his harem.

    The Beta male on the other hand exhibits the behaviour you describe. Because of his lack of natural physical size, he uses manipulation and connections (he is basically being social) to get what he wants. When he gets laid it’s from entertaining the females while the Alpha is away protecting his herd. He will never mate as much as the Alpha though.

    Are you an Alpha or a Beta, George? I’m an Alpha.

    But that was a sidetrack..

    Foreigners in Thailand can’t get girls back home. That’s just wrong George, It’s much easier to get women back home than it’s here (not talking bar-girls). In Thailand, there’s the never ending group of friends and face saving to be considered, in the West, most girls are not to concerned about reputation.

    I’ve met many (young) guys here in Thailand, who have succesful relationships with attractive Thai women. They don’t seem to lack confidence in Thailand. What they may lack is confidence in the West, because the moral and sexual code is absolutely fucked up there. Our idea of masculinity is that of the thug, the rapper, the criminal. Dominance in any form. It’s the sign of a society that lacks male guidance. It’s the sign of a society that is the equivalent of a teenage girl who thinks having your own car is the same as being a bigshot.

    Asian women are actually more mature than western women. Yes! They are able to tell empty macho gesturing from actual macho QUALITIES, such as being honest, trustworthy and reliable. Asian women are attracted to MEN not to PUBESCENT BOYS (or adults acting that way).

    Have you ever seen the boyfriends of the many hot girls you talk about here? Did you notice they look quite like you would call ‘loosers’ in the West? Yet, put these guys in your average American town and they’re the ‘geeks’, the ‘loosers’, the ‘bookworms’. You follow?

    There’s no need for why your average ‘nice’ guy should feel like a looser. If he is able to provide, to protect, to be a good husband, he is a winner. Western culture has lost the plot. Western women think sexiness and femininity is dependent of how much flesh they show or how big porn tits they can buy. Western men take their ques from part Gangsta-Rap, part homosexual football players.

    Anyway George, are you an Alpha or a Beta, cause you sound like a douchebag and I wouldn’t mind teaching you a little about what Alpha really means.

  • September 23, 2009 at 9:06 am
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    Ha ha, Jack, thanks for that rather earnest and lacking in nuance synopsis of the Alpha/Beta nonsense that is doing the rounds in the blogosphere these days. Clearly you’re reading far too many “Game” blogs and have a limited ability to absorb and understand what you’ve read, and are far too credulous. Have you just arrived from Roissy’s website? ( for those interested, http://www.roissy.com)

    The description you provide above of how women think in the west is a fantasy, and a rather adolescent one at that. It was dreamed up by the “game” people as a consolation for their own inadequacies. If THEY couldn’t get hot women, then it simply must be because women only like thugs. How comforting for a loser to think like that. But there is a vast gulf between a confident male and a thug, and educated Western women most certainly don’t admire thugs and “macho” types in the least bit.

    The game people – whose view of Western sexuality you seem to have accepted uncritically – are completely unable to imagine a strong and confident male who does not have elements of the thug and is not obsessed with dominance because game was invented as an overcompensation by weak nerdy types who have lived most of their lives as weak people and have no conception of true confidence looks and feels like.

    And status IS important to women everywhere, even in the West, although even MORE so in Thailand, as in Thailand women are economically dependent and have no ability to achieve upward mobility save by marrying a wealthy make. Your determination to blind yourself to this well known fact of the Thailand social scene, a fact widely noted and commented on by Thailand observers, is quite touching, even if it’s motivation is rather obvious. And Jack, what do you think the whole point of game is, all that Alpha/Beta nonsense? The whole point is to acquire the mannerisms of the high status male to fool women.

    As for “dominance”, I am sure most would agree that Thai women much more than Western women demand that quality in their men, although clearly ALL women like their men to have some level of that crucial male quality.

    But it’s quite obvious, Jack, why you yourself are in Thailand and what motivates you to insist that Thai women admire men who bring to the table the bare minimum qualities of “niceness and honesty, etc” – you believe you have found the ultimate “beta” refuge. But you haven’t.

    Unfortunately for your own conception of your sexual opportunities in Thailand, Jack, and for your belief that you’ve finally found a safe haven where you no longer have to compete with confident men and your “niceness” and “honesty” will be enough to win you the love of a beautiful woman, it simply isn’t enough, or even essential. “Niceness” even in Thailand will get you at best a third rate little Issan girl.

    Those “nice” Thai guys you see with the hot women are actually some of the biggest assholes to women you could possibly imagine. This would really shock you, Jack, if you ever saw it up close. The way a high status, sought after Thai guy behaves towards women – in fact all across Asia – would put any PUA fresh from Roissy’s website to shame. Asian men are notoriously dismissive of their women, to the point of degradation even. That you are oblivious of this fact is an indication of how far you’ve allowed your desperate desire to believe you’ve found a beta refuge blind you to what’s around you all the time.

    Finally, Jack, these “nice” Thai guys you see with the hot women, well, take a look at their cars and houses and their drinks. Yeah, they’re “high status”.

    So sorry, Jack, but you haven’t found your beta refuge after all, and your entire comment simply reinforces my point that most guys in Thailand are the sexual loser type – you have given the game away with your description of what Western women want compared to what Thai women want, and how you fit the Thai conception of what’s desirable so much more. You have described yourself as a beta.

  • September 23, 2009 at 8:28 pm
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    George,

    Let’s get the Alpha/Beta out of the way cause it seems to create some confusion. An Alpha male in biology (human biology as well), is by definition the most physically dominant, agressive male. This is true for hippos as well as for gorillas. You become the Alpha male by beating him in a fight. An Alpha male is born, it’s pure genetics, it’s the strongest, fastest and most dangerous male in a pack of any species.

    An Alpha male is not just a confident man or a rich man or socially intelligent man. It’s purely genetics. In modern society, many Alpha males are in jail or are athletes.

    Women are attracted to Alpha males on a purely physical level, simply because the Alpha male is the strongest, tallest, most agressive man, even though there’s no real need for those qualities in a modern high tech society. It’s just biological hardwiring. An Alpha male will always be attractive to women across cultures and race simply from that. He doesn’t have to do anything. He will be attractive to women, even if he is a bum, a jerk, poor etc.

    The rest of attraction is very much culturally determined.

    I agree that confidence is attractive, but confidence is not something you’re born with. It’s something that is learned and earned from succeeding in what you do and having a healthy sense of self worth. Why are there then so many ‘losers’ as you put it, without confidence with women in the West? If you go to a grade school yard, the boys there doesn’t seem to lack confidence with girls. They tease them, chase after them and generally behave the way men and women behave naturally.

    Then as they grow up, they are subject to feminist school teachers, weak parents (particularly weak fathers) and a society that gives white males a lot of guilt for their natural behaviour. You can’t really deny this can you? On the other hand, in Asia, there’s none of this bullshit. There’s no feminism, no preferential treatment of women, so naturally why would the guys have these hangups?

    You can see this in the U.S. where Asian men get the short end of the stick, they are the least desired sexually from white women and even Asian women many times prefer to date white guys. Did these Asian guys suddenly turn into losers or is it that culture made them so?

    50 years ago, I bet you there were many less ‘losers’ in the West, because feminism and political correct bs, were non existant.

    You’re not born with confidence and self esteem. It’s something that’s learned. Many guys who live for some time in Thailand could probably go back to their own countries and be much more succesful with women because they have found their natural confidence over here and have grown as people. I’ve seen it happen.

    I’ve done the PUA thing and it works. It works really well. In the West and in Asia, but eventually I found it to be fake and unnessecary. Once I got rid of my limiting beliefs from growing up in a negative enviroment it became pointless. It’s still a great way to get some CONFIDENCE with women.

    You seem to want to generalise and label a lot of people as losers. Why is that? If you were really so succesful, why the need to put others down, instead of saying ‘good for you’. Where’s the beef George?

  • September 24, 2009 at 1:12 am
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    Jack, to begin with your description of the Alpha male is a bit off. It isn’t about being physically strong but about social and psychological dominance. Even in the animal kingdom it isn’t unusual to find a weaker male dominating the pack because of an unusually fierce personality (which helps win fights over stronger opponents)

    Alpha refers to a quality of personality and not to any physical quality. This is how it’s used by the PUA types. In biology, Alpha simply means dominant male of the pack, with the question of what qualities – physical or psychological – got him there as a separate question.

    I do in fact agree that women across cultures are attracted to the personality traits that make up an Alpha male, although I disagree with you that any male exhibiting these traits will be attractive to women regardless of his other traits. A thug or an idiot who is supremely confident will have SOME, relatively minor, ability to attract women via his confidence, but his other qualities will more than cancel that out to many women. Alpha personality traits, while important, are not the final word on male attractiveness. They are one very important component.

    The PUA types have gotten hold of an important insight but then exaggerate it into an extreme that bears no relation to what goes on in the real world, like a scientist who has discovered some important principle which explains some corner of reality and then begins to think everything is explained by it. The view that emerges amongst the PUA types is seriously distorted. Educated Western women do NOT admire thugs.

    Feminism and the anti-male mentality in the West IS a disgusting and seriously messed up state of affairs, no argument from me there, but it’s effect on males in the West is sometimes exaggerated as well. Science is beginning to show that most personality traits are highly heritable, including confidence, and only partly amenable to environment. A confident man in the West isn’t really gonna fall for the feminist bullshit he is exposed to growing up. It might take him a bit longer to throw off the yoke but eventually its impossible to really suppress ones personality. There are tons of guys in the West who might pay lip service to the idiotic feminist ideal but whose actual behavior towards women is miles removed from what that ideal recommends.

    So yes, PUA stuff and living in Asia can for some guys bring out the degree of confidence they have had by nature, although it can’t transform them into unstoppable lotharios. And the PUA community is a big tent, with tons of stuff that is counterproductive and incredibly over-exaggerated side by side with some really useful advice – a lot of what they say is really, really off kilter -so while I can see that stuff helping someone develop his natural confidence with women, one can probably get a better effect from an effective self-esteem course. Despite all the “tricks” the PUA people recommend the only part of their repertoire which really works is the part that builds confidence – the rest is smoke, or worse.

    Everything is about context, and your example of Asian men in the US being at the bottom of the chain nicely illustrates many points. Asian men are less confident, aggressive, and bold then Western men by nature, less Alpha so to speak, so if Alpha were the be all and end all of female attractiveness, Western men should be the more desired in Asia as well – yet in Asia, Asian men are more desired than Western men, because women care for things like status and social position as well as mere Alphaness, and Asians men have these in their own societies to the extent that Westerners, who come here as temporary adventurers at best, don’t. If Westerners settled in Asian countries en masse and established social credibility, things would change very rapidly.

    I “put down” the Thailand ex-pat community, as you say, in a very general way simply because that community insists on living in what I see as a detrimental fantasy world. The result is a seriously distorted view of why Western guys are in Thailand, why Thai women are so “beautiful”, and a hundred other matters. Sure, I could simply say, why not leave these people to their beautiful fantasy, however ludicrous, that they’ve traveled so far to construct for themselves, but I enjoy blasting some fresh air through this swamp of falsehood, and what’s more, I think it’s dangerous to harbor these fantasies when the truth finally becomes clear. A lot of ex-pats become seriously bitter when their fantasy collapses, when they could have been happier if they simply been more realistic about themselves and their reasons for being in Thailand, and the real merits of farang vs Thai girls, and all the other subjects.

    Yours,

    George

  • September 25, 2009 at 12:37 am
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    @George: Wow, you get it right on so many levels but wrong on so many as well. I don’t live in a fantasy world at all. I live in a world where I take the outside inputs around me and adapt accordingly.

    You can write all you want but I know who I am and what I represent. No stereotype or whatever is going to make me change.

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