One frustrating thing about talking about Thai girls is that it’s so easy to make these huge generalizations due to the fact that us farangs aren’t really very well tuned into how Thai society and culture work. Some people try to delineate at the highest level putting Thai girls into Good and Bad camps. Good girls are the girls who have never worked in a bar and Bad girls are those who have worked in a bar. But the reality is a lot more complex than that.
What I’ve done below it attempt to map out a very high-level breakdown of Thai women that goes a little deeper than Good and Bad to demonstrate the multiple levels of complexity when talking about a Thai girl.
Please note: The sizes don’t necessarily represent their relative size. For instance, I’m not implying that the size of one group is larger than the other based on the size of the circles used to represent each group. The size was somewhat a factor of the amount of information that had to be fit into the area. Nor do the colors mean anything other than to distinguish between circles.
And this a look at someplace like Bangkok. Obviously if you’re out in the jungles in some Isaan backwater village then the definitions might change slightly and some of the dots might move around.
Also, please note: This is not definitive. Perhaps others might have different perspectives which can be expanded on in future posts or in the comments. I’m sure we all know exceptions to this but as previously stated this is simply trying to drill down a little farther than Good and Bad.
First off, let’s take a look at each group.
Traditional Thai Girls: These are the girls that you hear about that wash, cook, clean, and do everything to make sure that their husband or boyfriend is content. They tend to be very loyal, careful with money, and trustworthy. She may or may not be university educated but most will not be.
You might notice that I did have them overlapping with both Modern Girls and Mercenaries. Some Traditional Thai Girls are between being Traditional and Modern. I think these are the most likely to want to date farangs because they feel that farang men are more caring and will treat them better emotionally. Likewise, in the Mercenary overlap these are the girls most likely to want to marry a farang who will take care of them financially.
Modern Thai Girls: Thai society is changing and as the country becomes more urbanized Thai girls are following suit. They expect more out of a relationship than just cooking and cleaning for their husbands. They want a modern lifestyle. Whereas most Traditional Thai Girls are not university educated I would guess half or more Modern Thai Girls are.
Mercenaries: This isn’t really a new group but a way of showing the relationship between Thai girls and whether or not they’re driven primarily out of money. By that I mean greed. Of course nobody wants to marry a deadbeat but the difference between a mercenary and another type of girl is that money is absolutely the first and last thing she’s looking for in a guy.
Please note that Mercenaries should cover the entire area of the Prostitutes circle but I really couldn’t get a good shape that fit well in the diagram.
Prostitutes: Need I say more? Some might argue that your typical bar girl fresh from the village is more like a Traditional Thai Girl than a Modern Thai Girl born and raised in Bangkok but since the time from village girl to beyond repair is usually under six months it just seemed to make sense to put them squarely in the Modern Thai Girl circle.
Hi-So: I’ve chosen to use a more liberal definition here and include the hi-so wannabes. To me hi-so isn’t a definition of wealth so much as it’s a lifestyle one leads or tries to lead. You’ll notice that I’ve created an overlap with Party Girls since many Hi-So girls and almost all wannabes tend to be Party Girls. I’ve also overlapped them with Prostitutes because many will hop in bed with a guy if the right amount of cash is being thrown around. They might also be mia-nois for a wealthy Thai guy, which in my book makes them prostitutes.
Party Girls: There’s a wide range here but it could be your girls who you will find out at RCA or Ekkamai every weekend and know every hot DJ playing in Bangkok to a girl who just likes to go out and get hammered with her friends every weekend wherever they have the cheapest drinks. Again, they overlap with Prostitutes because many will be living beyond their paycheck and often need to sleep around to raise a little cash to keep up the lifestyle.
Tweeners: I honestly can’t remember who coined this phrase but the first time I heard it it instantly became a favorite because it so perfectly describes the girls who are constantly on the lookout to trade up in life. This is the type of girl who wants nothing to do with Thai guys and is looking to score the Big Kahunna Whitey. But as soon as she’s landed herself one she’s on the lookout for one a little richer, more handsome, or nicer. She never is and probably will never be satisfied with her lot in life and she’s always looking for the next rung on the ladder. I overlapped the Tweener with the Prostitute because while most are constantly in a relationship with a current boyfriend (until the next one comes along) they’re opportunistic enough to bang for cash if the right offer were made.
Freelancers: Some might be surprised that I only did a partial overlap with Prostitutes. The reason for this is because many are only part-timers. Some have full-time jobs and sleep with customers for money to make ends meet or if they have some other immediate need for quick cash. In fact, that’s the case for a surprising number of girls you meet in the afterhours clubs like Spice, Boss, etc.
Bar Girls and Massage Girls: Technically you could further slice and dice both groups into things like go-go vs. beer bar girls or 2000 a throw massage girls vs. the Penthouse models who will give you a soapy for 7,000. However, I think that level of detail is beyond the scope of this particular look at Thai girls. Both groups are squarely in the Prostitute circle as most make all or a good portion of their income off of the sex trade.
So now perhaps we can get away from these broad terms like Good and Bad since it’s obvious that just because your gf has never worked in a bar doesn’t mean she isn’t a Mercenary nor does it even mean that she’s truly a Traditional Thai Girl. She might be a Tweener or even a secret Freelancer. She could be a Party Girl who’s been around the block more than a few times.
Both the terms Good and Bad are too easy to mistake for being measures of their character when in reality the people underneath those labels are anything but good or bad. They are simply people with the same virtues and faults you can find in any other group of people.
I welcome comments, disagreements, pontifications, and insults. This is just a first draft at an attempt to elevate the conversation about Thai girls from being a binary choice between good and bad.
67 thoughts on “Good Thai Girls and Bad Thai Girls – Is There More to the Story?”
I applaud your attempt to explain parts of the social and economic conditions. However,I take exception at calling people who are attracted to money as “prostitutes”. That word is used too freely.
In the US many girls go thru a “party girl” phase. They are not considered “prostitutes”. A western woman may reject a suitor because He has not money as the hard wired female mind is to gain security. In Ancient times it meant allies chosen (mating) with the best provider(s). A call girl in the west may make a 6 figure income. be seen at the “best places” and the liquid-able “gifts” allow for money with out any “cash” exchanging hands.
Tweeners is a social/merchandising term for 11-12 year olds in the US I suggest another label as to not be confused. The term “trading up” is used for the mindset that she wants more and more, just like her sister in the Western countries do it is part of the BBD= Bigger,Better,Deal” A phase from an article in Penthouse magazine about 1974.
Another piece missing is the legal and social status of women in Thailand. What social services and retirement plans are available? In the US marriage is singular with (in most cases) a nuclear family not an extended one.
is this below a widely held view? ive heard many people say once a girl has been in a bar x amount of time she’s past repair etc etc i was just wondering if thats more of a fact than an opinion?
“since the time from village girl to beyond repair is usually under six months”
@pally: I don’t think it’s a law of nature or anything but usually the longer a girl stays in the bar the more likely it is that she can never be repaired.
I’ve met girls on their first night in the bar and they are sweet, innocent, scared . . . and several months later they are scamming guys and could never even think about a life outside of the bar. It’s sad but true.
Great article. Not sure I like the term “tweeners” — what happened to the good old label “golddiggers” (which applies to many girls in the West)? They’re willing to dig for their gold (have a BF and invest some effort), but are on the lookout for a better goldmine. Different than mercenaries, who’d do anything for the right price.
Btw, prostitutes (freelancers in particular) can be by far the most honest and easy to deal with of the bunch. It’s an ugly label not giving them enough credit.
“Best if used by” date varies by person, but 6 months is a generous upper bound for bargirls. Try sleeping with over-50 overweight drunk Farang ladies day after day and report back after 6 months… I doubt you’d still be happy to marry one of ’em out of love and stay faithful. Freelancers can last longer, but they get worn out too…
@crocodilexp: I’ve heard people like WW and the Mango boys use the term “tweeners” so it’s already in use.
Also, does gold digger actually capture what a tweener is? Tweeners are tweeners in everything. If they aren’t tweening men then they’re tweening jobs. Or maybe they’re tweening friends trying to move up the social ladder. It’s more of a mindset that nothing is satisfactory and is only a launchpad to something else. At least, that’s always the way I’ve thought about it. Gold diggers are something different. A gold digger who latched onto a rich guy might not necessarily be open to trading up to someone even richer. She might be more than happy spending his cash and may even be scared of losing her cash cow.
Originally ‘tweener’ had a slightly different meaning, and it comes from (as far as I know) Werewolf’s blog. Google Werewolf and tweener and you will find the specific post easily. As you defined it, the tweener term would apply more to a g-club girl.
rip off from stickmanbangkok website
Stickman can only wish he wrote something original like this in the last 3 years.
Very good article attempting to differentiate between the different girls that are out and about in places like BKK.
I’m afraid the old phrase is true, ‘you can take the girl out of the bar, but cannot take the bar out of the girl’.
If you have been to Midnite, Kiss or Dejavu bars, you will see the ” cayote” girls (spelling?)…They are “un-bar finable” and they are not supposed to go with customers. I know almost anything goes in Thailand, but where do these girls fit in the circles above? Are they college girls looking for some extra money at nite? Do they go out, secretly, with some Farangs? I suspect some do!
I have dated a few. Yes, they will go out with farang customers but management is ultra strict and the girls are usually taking a huge risk passing you their phone numbers so they do it all Mission Impossible style.
Personally, I would put all “coyotes” in the freelancer or bar girl category. Even the ones who won’t slip you their phone numbers are groping you and trying to get you worked up so you stay and buy them drinks all night. It’s a fine line to draw but if you’re physically touching someone in a sexual manner in the hopes of getting paid (lady drink fees) and they have the impression that they’re getting laid then to some degree you’re a prostitute. I know my definition might not please everyone but I put strippers back home in the same category. That’s just how I see it.
And like I said, I’ve gone out with coyotes from both these ripoff bars like Midnight, Spice Girls, etc as well as from Tilac (which are more like real coyote dancers in terms of physical build – tall and white skinned). I’ve also gone out on some occassions with coyotes from the G-Clubs as well. The girls at Midnight, Spice, etc act just like their go-go dancing sisters whereas the Tilac and the G-Club girls probably run closer to what the author calls Party Girls. They love to party and hang out with you on your dime but they aren’t necessarily always interested in anything more than that. Which is cool because they’re usually very upfront about it and understand if you decide to move on. And to be honest, sometimes just going out nightclubbing with a really attractive women who can dance like a wildcat and has everyone’s head spinning isn’t exactly a bad deal for paying for drinks and such. Most of the G-Club and some of the Tilac girls are fairly well educated and are fun to just hang out with.
On the other hand, your typical Midnight or Spice Girls “coyote” will immediately try to rope you into paying for a shopping spree. She’s not upfront about anything and you feel like you’re being gamed the entire time just like back at the club where she works where they don’t tell you until it’s time to pay your bill that the “coyotes” can’t be barfined.
In the end, for me, I really think it comes down to the fact that your G-Club type coyote is typically looking for a long-term arrangement. She wants to hook up with some guy willing to give her a nice allowance and take care of her. She doesn’t care if she’s the mia noi as long as she gets treated well (financially and emotionally), gets taken out to nice places, and gets to lead a good life for as long as it lasts.
The Midnight and Spice Girls coyotes are basically bar girls who are looking for a quick score like a go-go dancer. They tend to think of everything on a transactional basis. How much can they get out of THIS guy in the shortest amount of time? They tend to have the same bar girl/go-go dancer emotional scars and the same bar girl/go-go dancer mentality of always being on the prowl for the next sucker. Really, to call most of these girls “coyotes” is a complete misnomer. They’re simply bar girls who don’t have sex as part of their regular job.
But even that, you have to look at how they’re incentivized. A G-Club girl isn’t penalized or fired for giving out her phone number. The club wants her to build up a client list so she can entice them to come into the club and spend more money. Repeat customers are their lifeblood. These girls have a quota of X number of lady drinks per month they have to sell so having a phone number full of guys who are happy with their company is their lifeblood.
On the other hand, Midnight, Kiss, Dejavu, etc prohibit the girls from establishing any sort of connection with thier customers. In fact, they actually sabotage any sort of long-term relationships by prohibiting the girls from exchanging numbers with customers. They have to milk them for as many lady drinks as they can on each visit because once the guy figures out that he’s being scammed 90% aren’t going to return and if they do they’ll be far more cautious with their drink buying. It breeds a mentality of the quick score.
Sadly that’s what many of the go-go bars haven’t really figured out. Most guys who go into a G-Club dump 30,000 baht on an initial membership and probably anywhere from 4000 – 10,000 baht per visit on mixers and/or paying the ladydrink fees for a hostess or a coyote. Why? Because at the end of the night the manager comes over and verifies that you agree with every single charge on your bill. If you dispute anything they’re usually very quick to side in your favor. They want you to come back. They know you’re going to dump tons of cash.
On the other hand, the go-go bars try every damn scam in the book. They do the 1000 baht note scam (give you change for 500 when you give them 1000), they give you 40 or 60 baht in coins hoping you’ll leave it for a tip, they don’t explain their “coyote” dancer policies and let you think you can bar-fine the girl you’ve just spent 1000 baht in drinks on, etc, etc. Because there’s so much dumb money coming in from the tourists they don’t need the repeat business. Of course, many of them have found out the hard way over the last 2 years that decades of screwing over the expat community can hurt when tourism drys up but it’s become so ingrained into their thinking that they couldn’t change if they wanted to.
To continue even thu a bit off topic. First time I saw the Coyote girls, I thought they did dance well but cost 200 bht a drink and were/are un bar finable (new English word huh?). Well, needless to say it cost me exactly 200 bht after which I said to myself there is no added value from these girls for the customers. But recently they seem to have a ” show” around 10 pm on Wedensday thru Saturday (I think). Well, now I enjoy watching them better than before but still will NEVER buy them a drink. Some actually will sit and talk to me and leave w/o a drink but still happy which i find to be nice. I know for a fact, the no bar fine coyote game has pissed off many Farangs. I saw a guy getting really upset when he asked to take a coyote girl out, he pointed at the menu that showed 2000 bht for a barfine but was told no can do!! He was so pissed at the mamasung and the girl that he was shouting then he left and made sure he left no tip to either the bar or the girl….Very bad for business I would say!!!
BTW, what are your prefered bars in soi cowboy and why? or may be I should start a new thread!!
Unable to empathize or feel affection or loyalty, being exclusively out for himself, the sexpat has no sense of fair play; cowardly, needing constantly to pander to the female to win her approval, that he is helpless without, always on the edge lest his animalism, always needing to cover up, he must lie constantly; being empty he has not honor or integrity — he doesn’t know what those words mean. The sexpat, in short, is treacherous, and the only appropriate attitude in a sexpat `society’ is cynicism and distrust.
Hmmm.. Let’s see.
I have education. I don’t sweep floors for my husband. I am not married. I don’t party and get myself hammered. I don’t go out with boys for money. I don’t sleep with boys for money. I have a full time job and it’s not at a bar. My boyfriend doesn’t pay for my designer clothes. I am no one’s mistress.
So… I don’t exist? Am I an alien? *gasps* Am I special?
But then again, if my kind really doesn’t exist, then who the heck are these girls I call my friends who also have education and aren’t freeloaders or freelancers? Last time we were in Nana it was for some shisha and shawarmas. They were delicious. Did you ever tried the food there or just the flesh?
Maybe there’s a reason why you have never come across my kind. We can also spot your kind. And it’s not very appetizing.
@kitty shut up all girls are whores
@ktiu you’re a whore.
at least that’s what i tell myself b/c otherwise i’d have to face the truth and realize i’m a pathetic little shit who has to pay girls for sex, and that can’t be true??
nice diagram by the way, i think it’s an interesting subtle comment on how thai women are undereducated and wouldnt know how to conceptualize a useful visual aid or use illustrator in the first place
you see some girls are modern AND traditional AT THE SAME TIME
One frustrating thing about talking about Thai girls is that it’s so easy to make these huge generalizations due to the fact that us farangs aren’t really very well tuned into how Thai society and culture work.
this is where i stopped reading lol
I’m a sadist in a way. I like to infuriate myself by feeding myself with this kind of sexpat intelligence. It’s a great read. It’s not common that you can see stereotypes play out in real life, and so proudly.
Love the Spot a Lady Boy Quiz. That’s how I came in here actually because my Thai friend scored like 80%. Shame on her. She should know what’s what, especially when you’re Thai. I scored 100% by the way.
You should make another one. Spot the difference between a Beerbellied Moderate Looking Human White Male, Slightly Aged and a Sexpat. Now that’s hard.
The only thing worse than the article itself is the number of comments saying “good article.”
Interesting read…better comments.
“Spot the difference between a Beerbellied Moderate Looking Human White Male, Slightly Aged and a Sexpat.”
That’s easy. Just check their level of perspiration in the day light.
I think this could be a fantastic photo essay/quiz.
Hang around downtown, catch sexpats with young girls on their arms in various photos, then photograph a bunch of the moderate looking beerbellied folk…then photoshop the girl out of the first batch…and take the quiz!
If I had a telephoto lens on my phone, I’d be doing this TOnight.
everybody chill, if you take a minute and think about it there’s really nothing inherently wrong with locking yourself into your bangkok studio apartment on a saturday night and writing a misogynistic blog post categorizing different types of thai girls while listening to j-pop
if you have aspergers that is
@ktiu…there’s no way this was written on a Saturday night…it’s extra-large sponge night at Tulips!
@ktiu @RobinThailand @kitty
What about Western women?
Oh yeah, wait, I forgot, according to blogs like this we’re all BITCHES.
Came for the ladyboy quizz like @kitty, wondered why all the ppl I know were commenting on this story.
Man, it’s never ending the amount of idiotic theories loser guys can concoct around a lifestyle of fucking/dating hookers for cash. I mean, if Thailand is such a paradise of cheap hookers and available women, why is anyone wasting time sitting at home writing a blog? Why aren’t you out fucking hookers RIGHT NOW?
man oh man.
@goeast Um…to get a beerbelly this big, one needs to take a break from the ladies once in a while and drink beer. Duh?!
Have you ever considered that it is OK to be like this? To whore yourself out a bit?
I have no high education.
I work in showbiz, run in hi-so circles, have no problem showing skin for money.
Technically I am whoring myself out.
You know what, I have no problem with that. I aint no stupid girl.
Cuz at the end of the day, I earned my money. Go home to my very fancy Thonglor apartment, use perks and spend my days at 5 star luxury hotels in Phuket, eat great food, get vip treatment, buy my own stuff and I aint complaining or feeling belittled by that if that qualifies me as a whore if I got all this by selling myself a bit.
I have also had very rich men in the past, who I might not have been into but they gladly spoiled me with their money to treat me nice. They drive nice cars, flew me all over, had nice jobs, handsome, they want to sleep with me.
Then why the fuck should I not?
If that is whoring myself out then hey , I stand proud.
Coz at the end of the day I get a good nights sleep.
We all sell ourselves in some way, I use sex and have no problem with it.
You dont think if men had that same power women has they wouldnt do the same?
There would be man whores running around everywhere.
Wow, lot’s of hating going on. I’ll take a stab though . . . in the diagram the girl Kitty described is that overlapping area between modern and traditional. That’s my best guess.
I think some people missed the point though. I think the author is trying to say that things are far more layered and complex than many farangs (both men and women) make them out to be. Farangs have a habit of calling women good or bad girls and really it doesn’t mean anything. You can have a prostitute that is as honest and sweet as the day is long and you can have a hi-so girl who is a ruthless bitch. Which one is good and which one is bad? If you talk to many farangs they would tell you the bar girl is the bad girl because she works in a bar and the hi-so is a good girl because she doesn’t sell sex for money. I think the point here was to explain that it’s not that easy.
@goeast: Actually, the site does paint farang women unfairly, IMHO. That said, a large number of the farang women who post comments on here are bitches 🙂 They’re racists who within one or two comments start saying that all Thai women are bitches and sluts. Some have lost their husband to a Thai girl, some are stuck over here in a job they dislike and mad that they don’t get more attention from farang guys, whatever. Let’s just say there’s a lot of bitter farang women in Thailand.
And to be quite honest all of this hostility towards guys is somewhat a mirror. Why is every guy who goes to Nana a fat pig? Why has nearly every farang woman who comes to this site used that cliched reference? So, if you think all guys think farang women are bitches, what does it say that you think every guy who’s ever gone into a go-go is a fat pig?
Why aren’t you out fucking hookers RIGHT NOW?
Maybe they write when they’re recharging their batteries 🙂
I’ve never really understood the hostility towards guys who like to have sex with a hooker from time to time. Is it hurting you? They’re all fat, beer-bellyed pigs so what should you care what they do with their lives and money?
But we all know why there’s so much hostility. You know what you’re saying isn’t true. You know that almost every single guy who lives here has slept with a hooker. Not just the fat ones but the ones you wouldn’t mind hooking up with too. Maybe even your husbands or boyfriends.
So the best defense is a good offense I guess. Label anyone who has ever set foot in Nana a fat, beer-bellyed loser hoping to shame some guys from going there. Go onto a site that discusses the nightlife scene and start leaving hostile and derogatory comments about the people who frequent the site and then when they respond in a hostile manner feel pleased with yourself that you’ve just proven that all farang men hate farang women. We’re all misogynists. Perverts. Losers who couldn’t get laid without paying.
That helps you sleep at night. Good luck with that.
@Tambourinequeen: Well said. In a way we’re all whores. We all exchange our time and energy for money. Some people work in jobs they hate. Some people work in bars. What’s the big deal?
Maybe there’s a reason why you have never come across my kind. We can also spot your kind. And it’s not very appetizing.
Actually, I know who you are (as well as your grandfather) and believe me, there’s a reason I don’t come across your kind. I try to avoid people like you.
You like to complain a lot and that skill has brought you some limited success which you should be proud of. But you just strike me as a bit of one of those self-absorbed types that loves to confuse being an independent woman with a license to say whatever thought pops into your head regardless of the impact it might have on others. If people argue back or take offense at your unfiltered thoughts they obviously can’t handle such an independent woman.
And as long as you keep yourself surrounded by similarly independent women and hopelessly horny guys who will agree with you on everything you say, you’re comfortable.
Actually, we have guys like that too except we call them assholes. Believe it or not independent thinker doesn’t always equal being open minded.
So, if this article is so wrong, tell us how to better understand the different types of Thai women your average farang might run into. Instead of bashing, try enlightening. If the author was wrong then correct him instead of ranting about how wrong he is.
A well written article by you on such a complex subject would be a refreshing break from hearing you rant about 20 year old bitches that hang out in Siam Paragon in the middle of the afternoon shopping for designer clothes.
Wow. You hate me so much yet you follow me online like a stalker. Judging from how much you “know” me I guess you’re a loyal fan! I am impressed. Sorry I don’t have a reward card or frequent reader card for you but I have a tip: if you don’t like what I write or say, stop reading. Like this blog for example. It’s just today that I came across it and I find their views on thing not very appeallig buy guess what? I’m not gonna add it to my bookmarks or RSS just so that I can get fed posts that I don’t like so I can come and troll just to make my life a little less boring.
And you know my grandfather? Wow you must be old. And he’s dead. Your time will come soon I guess I don’t want to give you a heart attack or show my disrespect to the elderly so bye gramps.
Wow and you actually took the time to compose that comment. You must be obsessed. I’m overwhelmed. If I create a Facebook Fan Page for my blog you have to join. Don’t disappoint me.
I love how someone who is such an attention whore claims she’s being stalked when she gets attention.
Don’t flatter yourself. The number of people blogging in English in Thailand is fairly small. You being Thai and blogging in English sort of makes you stand out from the crowd. Sometimes you stumble across links like you did to find this site.
I can’t really say that I’m a fan of the site. The whole bitchy, cyber-cool thing already happened back in Farangland and has run its course. It might be hip and cool here in Thailand now but been there, done that. It feels like you’re trying too hard to be that bratty, bitchy, upwardly mobile Thai that is flaunting the system by being rude and arrogant. My guess is you’re probably a much nicer person but if you were real on your blog then you wouldn’t have your little fan base, would you?
The reason why I started reading this blog is that it’s quite the opposite. It doesn’t try to be anything. It’s just random farangs (and a few Thais) who are trying to make sense of this place. Like the person who wrote this article, seems like he’s making an attempt to understand Thailand on something deeper than a Good/Bad girl level. Fair enough.
Like I said, if he’s wrong, then enlighten us. You obviously have enough command of the English language to explain some of these more complex topics so help us understand Thailand. No, you would rather write fluff pieces about hating Windows. At least this guy went out on an edge and tried to do something original. He took a shot.
Having an attitude will only get you so far as a professional writer. I’ve seen a lot of blogs come and go over the years and unless you’re willing to take some chances and challenge some taboos, you’re toast the moment a cuter, more edgy blogger comes along.
Most of the authors here aren’t professional writers (at least non that I recognize) but they’re willing to talk about stuff other people won’t touch. You want to look down your nose because this site often discusses the bar girl scene but does it take more guts to admit you’ve paid a hooker or to act like you’re morally offended by the thought?
Personally, I don’t visit Nana or Cowboy much because now that I live here I find the high-pressure sales atmosphere rather off-putting. Sure, on vacation you can deal with it but now I would rather find a nice quiet pub someplace and watch a match.
But I have had Thai female friends ask me to take them to Cowboy. They’re curious. They want to see what all of the fuss is about. And surprisingly, not one was disgusted by what she saw. Some were a little shy about it but they all thought it was going to be far worse based on all of the rumors that go around.
So if you won’t grace us with a column on your blog based on your first-hand impressions inside a go-go? That’s pushing the edge. That’s taking a shot.
At the end of the day, both Thai and farang women can call us what they want. The reality of the situation is that 90% of the prostitution in Thailand is for the Thais. Sutthisan Road, the massage parlors on Ratchada, the membership clubs, the little karaoke joints all over the suburbs of Bangkok. All the girls working Patpong, Nana, and Cowboy combined don’t even compare to the girls in just those places in terms of numbers.
According to reliable surveys of sexual behaviour, every day at least 450,000 Thai men visit prostitutes.
Other incidental figures produced by the survey indicate that 81% of respondents had visited a prostitute within 6 months prior to the survey, 97% of military conscripts (2 year compulsory service) regularly visit prostitutes and 73% of the conscripts lost their virginity to a prostitute
The only reason everybody seems so up in arms about Cowboy, Nana, and Patpong is because it’s farangs. We’re sexpats, sex tourists, etc. Yeah, yeah . . . chances are one of your male family members has banged a hooker more recently than I have.
And like tambourinequeen said, who are we calling hookers? Is it just bar girls or what about the hi-so wannabes who latch onto the first thing driving a BMW? Isn’t she sleeping with him for the money and gifts? For the lifestyle? I guess a girl who has sex for 2000 baht is a hooker but when she lands a guy worth millions she’s a trophy wife.
tell me billy, this always confuses me, the bar fine comes ON TOP on what you pay to fuck the hooker, right?
oh also where can you go to avoid ladyboys, i dont wanna be going down on a hot stripper and then *boom* i have a dick in my mouth. i dont play that way!!
hahaha funny story, i was just brushing my teeth and i pictured billy leaning back in his chair after another 1000 word response on some shitty blog and going “well that was time well spent”
thought i’d share, peace out
I found some of the comments in article enlightening. Spent a whole mnth in Thailand two years ago by the end of the month I had developed a preference for freelancers in the more high end bars and clubs. More chance of meeting a part time freelancer. A shop girl type who works in one of the big western type stores, well dressed and and classier girls but they have blown thier wages and are looking for a well dressed and a clean and I stress clean farang to supplement thier income. In otherwords shave shower and apply the deoderant guys. I reckon its worth it for the whole go go bar scene etc is just too clinical for me. With the freelancers as long as you dont rush into anything and check them out beforehand, look before you leap in otherwords.
As for Nana and even Pattaya, I will be giving that scene a miss next time I go back. Too many chicks there from Laos, Cambodia and Nam and too many that looked well underage.
I wonder what that would do to your model as you made no mention of the fact that a great many bar girls are not Thai.
I certainly came across a few Thai girls who were the Modern Girl/Freelancer /Merceneray types all rolled into one. So in that respect I would agree with the model.
some of the stuff on here is outta control.
tambourinequeen is a disgusting little woman and i would be ashamed to be the father of. any woman who will do anything for money has no place in decent society.
your little condo in wherever in bangkok.wow . ever been to the ststes or japan . thai’s a joke. so you pretty much slut yourself out to live and dress accordingly . it honestly dosent matter what you look like when your croth is so worn out it looks 40 at 25.
who would want a woman like that. some old nasty man . what happens when you get busted ass and nobody will pay for you…. then what.
and yes there are a few very nice rich girls that dont take money for sex but they are rare aand far inbetween . i hava bunch of thai friends that fit that categorie but i met them in sydney overseas and had alot of money. numerous cars houses and such . everyone i met in the montherland has been a pervert . they will do whatever and whoever it takes.
plus they have kids to tkae care of .. so it’s pretty much like your doing the same thing that got you there in the first place. all you have to do it cross your legs and it would be set. but i think they just like to have sex too much.
and finnally , EVERYTHING in thailand is about money .
even when you marry a girl you have to pay for her .
i think the family has no repsect for the women . sell her off like beef.
and no i dont care about her family . and no iam not going to support them . they can do whatever .iam here they are there . if she does not like it she can stay farming rice in issan.
@buzzlightyear: Yawn! Not another angry expat/sex-tourist who has finally woken up to the fact that prostitutes are with you for the money.
To say that there are few very nice girls that don’t whore themselves out for money automatically demonstrates one’s ignorance. I’ve always believed – and this seems to be especially true in Thailand – that we tend to attract people like us. So, if all you meet are whores then maybe you treat women like whores.
I think one of the things that throws a lot of guys off is when they actually do meet women who aren’t total whores. I know a few guys who try to meet “nice” Thai women and constantly strike out. Why? Because they think the same topics they chat up bar girls with works with “nice” Thai girls. Bar girls have a financial incentive to pretend you’re funny, charming, and witty. And if you spend all your time hanging out with them you get a completely skewed perspective on what is actually funny, charming, and witty for Thai girls.
On the other hand, I know plenty of these supposedly rare Thai girls that guys like you claim they can’t meet. It’s not that these girls are “rare” as you say but that they don’t frequent the places that you (or I) frequent. I usually meet them via private parties and through introductions from a friend.
Your comment seems to indicate that for a girl to be nice she has to be rich but maybe you need to find a new definition of nice. Is a girl with an MBA who works 12 hours a day for 40,000 baht per month rich? No. But she can still be nice.
And everything is not about money. What would you say about India where the bride’s family pays the groom? Is that also all about money? Or what about our own farang culture where not too long ago we used to have a dowery system in many countries?
But I think your entire problem with women here can be summed up in your last paragraph. The fact that you don’t respect her family, don’t care about her family, and have no desire to assist her family . . . who nearly every Thai woman sees as the number one thing in her life, pretty much guarantees you a long future of failed relationships.
I’m not saying to break out the checkbook every time she says the water buffalo is sick but with an attitude like that towards her family and the fact that you tend to view most Thai women as whores anyways and I highly doubt you’ll ever find yourself with someone who doesn’t meet your expectations of what Thai women are.
no i do not have any history of prostitution relationships or anything like that.
it is merely observations.
anyone who does not realize what a prostitute is should be slapped.
even the poor ones that don’t whore every day . given the right amount usually will seal the deal. what thai poor woman wont take 500 dollars for a 3o min job.
and that is all i mean. you dont have to be rich to be good but you dont have to be bad if you rich .
the rich onees dont have to so they dont. simple as that.
and i have met nice ones. ones with medium amounts of money that were ok but the poor ones will do anything out of desperation. it’s not thier fault they were born in the jungle. desperation is a sour stench.
i probably know more upperclass thai women than yourself.
so to say i dont know any would be very incorrect.
even my thai man friends say that thai women are not the most kosher.
they say make sure they rich. they all say the same.
and yes everything is about money. some of your ideas i give you some credit but this thought i believe you are very wrong.
because i dont want to have to pay for her family to survive iam not respectfull???
when do i stop paying , when they die ?? that unacceptable. and i dont feel that i am in the minority. my same thai friend has a sister that is getting married , think he is going to take care of her family . i think not . they havea huge fenced in house a merc, a bmw , harley davidsons and crotch rockets . he is not going to have to support them .
why do you think he chose her ?? is he considered bad. i would say smart.
and the biggest problem is the one you stated. thier family is number one.
why would i like to be second?? i dont mind helping them out sometimes. or hooking my gf or wife up with money on a regular basis . but supporting the whole family . i think not. plus they expect to get married in thier country. they have no respect for us . it’s a very warped way of thinking . thier culture is the one and only . how bout u are a little tiny insignifigant country that is the size of texas if its lucky. wtf .
i understand paying the man cause they took your daught off your hands and they are going to take care of her the rest of her life. but to give and then give and then give. and also so funny how they are like what yours is mine. and whats mine is yours. of course , they have everything to gain . what do we get .. i tell you what we get for our money …
2 greedy parents maybe grandparents (god forbid) a chicken a buffalo and 3 hecteres of unaccessble jungle with no pavement or life around for miles. dont forget the house not fit for a dog . and people make it sound like they area catch . wow . we are doing them a favor buddha could not . a real life. and then we come after the family, we are somewhere inbetween the dog and thier illegitamate child .
stick with the bangkok money fellas
Couldn’t agree with you more about what you say. Poverty creates a certain desperation and the expectations that families, from poor rural areas, place on daughters is enormous. It’s an obligation that continues in perpetuity. having recently been through the deal myself over the past four years and losing about four million baht in the process, I now see it for what it is – enough is never enough. People can blather on endlessly about love and all the associated emotional bullshit that comes with it but the fact is, in the part of the world where I come from (New Zealand) there is something that ranks higher than love, or anything else for that matter; it’s called RESPECT. And you haven’t got that, you aint got SHIT. If someone does’t respect you then they aren’t worth spitting on.
Wow… I randomly found this site while reading the classic, racist Topix thread about Asians and black men lol.
I must say I’m def going to have to agree with Billy, Mega, and BuzzLightyr; I live in the states, never been to Thai… but one thing I can speak on with AUTHORITY is Americanized “Asians,” and general American women; they are THE WORST OF BREED.
(No offense girl, but give the rhetoric a rest; be quiet. Men don’t like mouthiness, regardless of how you try and positively frame it. Men INNATELY want control over women b/c women are JUST as trifling and untrustworthy as you falsely demonize most men to be. You have a pussy and that makes you unequal in power vs men innately, thus controlling women IS in OUR best interest as men. Out of control women bring drama and problems in a man’s life… controlled women = happy men. Like it or not, it’s ALWAYS going to be this way, no matter how “educated,” nor “liberated” you claim to be. It’s BIOLOGY 101. Note I said control and not servile… there’s a big difference.)
Posters like Kitty love coming off as innocent and “good,” but in reality these chicks are the westerners “White Girl 2.0,” lol! They have been corrupted and assimilated into the greedy ways of the White-girl/man westerner. They’ve adopted these new ideas such as “liberated,” and “open-minded,” “educated…” These are merely code word for “mouthy bitch,” that most men (weak minded, passive and whipped) usually tolerate, only to fuck and hope to run or for spineless pussified men that put up with them b/c they don’t have whatever skills necessary to date decent women that respect men Vs competing w/them in every social/societal facet. Not all, but many of these so-called “Kitty’s” out there don’t actually respect their/men at all… So long as the dude is licking pussy (more than getting head; bad usually), buying them a bunch of shit (code word for “gifts of affection), and taking her out to dinners, which she rarely if every pays for. Yes Kitty is the modernized version of the Americanized, white-girl WHORE, while pretending to be “traditional,” to rope in suckers.
_ I love these fake-whores that go out to the bars and clubs, completely dressed in scantily clad attire knowing men will hit on them, buy drinks, but these chicks aren’t in any way there to hookup or meet someone; it’s just ATTENTION whoring as usual. Women love all the attention, but don’t want to be responsible for her actions when they are the cause of their own objectification BC of their incessant need for FREE attention… what a joke, you are so transparent. Please try and tell us all you and your little friends don’t whore it up before you go out; you just wear jeans and sneakers huh? No attempts at all of sexing yourselves up for a shit load of attention? I digress…
__The funny thing is that since she’s so “smart,” (witty) she doesn’t see it that way; it’s all rationalized as “I deserve it, b/c I’m ‘good,'” when in reality if dude stops giving her all the completely UNEQUAL attention, she’ll (her USA related personality type, counterpart) bail and find another white-boy to leech off of. Remember .edu-Asians LOVE themselves some naive, insecure white-nerds that will be successful one day, so she’s investing in him just like the hooker Tambourine (who proudly asserts) Vs Kitty… she finds clever ways of hiding her leeching off men. Yes please tell us Kitty that you’re all about “equality” and “liberation,” HOW many dates and crap have you bought for the men in and out of your life? I bet you ain’t spent nearly a fraction of a cent on them while you continually drain men for their honestly earned dollar. It’s just masked by social “traditions…” last time I checked, women been hollering about “equality” forever, then when it’s given to them (last time I checked you whores ain’t NEVER fought in WAR for shit on your own, always men giving you things, rights, blah blah) they still expect men to pay up, but in socially accepted ways of the good-girl-prostitute.
Cut the “liberalized,” “I went to college” crap, I’ve worked at many elite .edu’s and I’ve see your type whoring around with all the white boys you can stand, leaving your own kind wondering wtf is going on? You’re no better than Tambourine, you’ve just cleverly masked your own whoring with a westernized cloak… I see your type leeching off men, esp white men in the USA all the time. You and your Americanized, poisoned minded, brethren aren’t anything special. Go ahead and speak your “mind,” but really it’s just another wanna-be elite smart girl yapping away. Too bad you don’t realize that the only reason people tolerate it is b/c you’re a weak minded coquette… so that gives you a pass to be rude to others, esp men, while knowing; unlike men, you won’t get the shit kicked out of you for disrespecting people; you’re a phony. You’re not some “nice girl,” as you portray on this blog… you’re the DEVIL in disguise lol. No self-respecting man would want your ass constantly mouthing off about wtf you do and do not like; PAY YOUR OWN DAMN WAY ALL THE TIME then? Nooo, that’d be too much to ask huh; men, we EARN our living and pay our fair share. You on the other hand, continue to mask leeching, while putting out… Stop putting out and see just how long you stay with a man. He’s RENTING sex from you essentially by paying more of your share of the “dates,” than not. Aka you’re a WHORE for even accepting these “payments of affection…” Yes logic is the tool of the smart man… often thwarting the irrational and even smarter-irrational women like you. Please, you’re no better than anyone just b/c you can cover it up with false intellect. You’ve met your match, tramp; sporting a good-girl facade. PAY UP or GTFO prostitute?
Prostitution: is the act or practice of being available for sexual acts with another person in return for payment.
Tell me… if your man doesn’t pay for dates and shit for you… will you continue to have sex with him? If no = ^see definition above^ lol LOGIC RULES AGAIN>.< Oh and don’t even bother with some lame “you don’t have a girl, you’re a misogynist” BS; I LOVE women and find pleasure in being with them; TRUE good women that don’t expect me to fund their entertainment budget under the guise of “dating,” and or phony relationship requiring me to be responsible for your erratic and largely asinine emotions. Only chumps deal with a girl’s bullcrap drama for sex. I weed out women like you and find TRUE good-girls that respect men and only expect kindness, affection and mutual respect in return; not little payments to keep the pussy open. Hahah you’re joke girl. You think you’re smart(er), but really you’re just another witty chick, with a mouth, aka amateur, and a poser.
Great article OP: I've never read anything like it and it's good to see the discussion of such risqué topics. Shit… if dudes gotta pay directly for sex and a good time Vs blowing endless cash on some pretending bitch who's just out for a free meal and some potential entertainment; more power to you guys. I've never needed nor had to, thought about it for fun, sure… debated it bc "dating" is nothing more than masked prostitution, but hey who am I to judge. Men need to satisfy their sexual desires regardless of how we feel about it. Do what YOU gotta do fellas; I wouldn't at this point in time, but hey it's your life; enjoy it while it lasts…
im thai girl ,just read a few quotation about thai girl, most of them are negative that made me rather sad. it’s so complicated about making couple between thai girl and western guy. most of us are traditional girls. besides that are playgirl or prostitute. most of good girls are traditional but there’s are some reason why western guys don’t interested traditional girl . thai traditional girls are conservative and when they get marry ,they expect bride price from groom very high while playgirls easy to hv sex but cruel like bar girls , they will proud to talk about how much they get money from western guys. so be careful with bar girl. if you not go to bkk for sex so don’t worry you will be cheated :). thai people are friendly and welcome visiters, suit to make friend. genuin person need to take time to see what are they?
@thAIGIRL the reason that people say such things are very easy to understand. thai women are about MONEY .
may i ask you something ?? why must we pay money if we are taking care of you and your family ? what do we get out of it ?? we have to pay dowry .
it would make more sense if the thai family payed the farang . we are going to take care of thier daughter and presumably the family for the rest of there life .
where is the equality ??
So what your telling me is that there is no such thing as a free relationship in thailand. you pay for sex by the day with a normal whore . but with the traditional ones you pay one time big and can boom boom . same same . just one is more discreet . why must we pay . please inform me with more than “tradition” and “culture” .
its whack .
and kitty is a whore.
to thai girl , i want to know more about the dowry system ??
I read the article in the hopes of learning more about Thai women. But I am sorry I don’t feel more enlightened. I feel this article is a bad one. I am sure that some of it is true, but one simply can not label people. Everyone is different, every relationship is different in some ways.
This article is nothing more then an article saying that we westerners are so much better and morally superior then most Thai women. This article is at most 2-dimensional. Thai people are poor and they must do what they can to survive, stop judging them and stop going to Thailand if you don’t like there surviver games. Stop buying sex from them and treat them with the respect they diverse. If you want to meet a good Thai women you will find one. If you go to bars even in the western world you will meet disgusting women. Even women in the western world who use INTERNET to date are disgusting and most of the are sexual predators looking for as many quick relationships. I could write an article about sick and disgusting white women in the western world. Wait, I could write several books packed with anecdotes about how sick and disturb the average white women is.
Stop going to Thailand to pay for sex you are bringing shame to white men all over the world. ALL white men should be thankful towards the Thai women who marry them. Stop dealing with Thai women prostitutes or Thai women who only want white mens money. Stop degrading yourself and other Thai women by going there to buy sex.
Why would any sane person write an article about different prostitutes, bar girls and gold diggers? Have you lost you mind somewhere between earth and heaven?
All tourist that go to Thailand to buy sex should be shot dead before departure home. You show disgrace to the rest of us who live in the western world who have fought in generations to create a better world. You should behave like Christians and not like Godless infidels. The western world must leave the principals of freedom, because they only bring insanity in the heads of millions of westerners. All westerner must return to their Christian fate or you must DIE! The modern principals are worth nothing, they only create sick and disturb people like the author who writes about prostitutes in Thailand.
The author shows evidence of the insanity that the modern society brings out of people in the western world. You must turn back to Christianity or die!
Stop going to Thailand to buy sex you sick modern fucks!
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